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Author
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Topic: The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 427 of 675 (742427)
11-19-2014 6:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 422 by Faith
11-19-2014 5:37 PM
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Re: An interesting example of women speaking during a service.
Well Jesus certainly doesn't fit any definition of the Jewish Messiah and even by the totally new definition created by Christianity when they realized the end was not gonna come within the time period Jesus promised, Jesus has to be considered a failed Messiah. Now I believe that Jesus is the Messiah but so far he is still a failed Messiah. That may still change in the future but so far it's still simply an unsupported belief.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 422 by Faith, posted 11-19-2014 5:37 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 433 of 675 (742461)
11-20-2014 11:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 429 by GDR
11-20-2014 11:26 AM
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Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
However, they are consistent in saying that they walked, talked, touched and even ate with Jesus and that He was in some sense physical, but it was a renewed physicality. Well, no. Not all the accounts mention eating with Jesus or touching Jesus.
As I said earlier that in some way the body of the resurrected Jesus connected God's space, (call it heaven if you like), with our space. Part of the point is that ultimately God's space and our space will be fully joined. Not even sure there is any evidence to support that assertion in any of the resurrection accounts.
The Biblical and Christian message is that we are to be stewards of this creation. That I agree with.
There can be no doubt that the first Jesus followers became Jesus followers because of the firm conviction that Jesus had died and come out the other side in a renewed physicality. They built there whole theology around that belief. The first theologian Paul stated that if this wasn't true then "we" are the most to be pitied. If I didn't believe it to be the case I would simply not bother with church or things Christian and I wouldn't call myself a Christian. I know there are those like Dom Crossan who argue against this but Dom, ( a great guy by the way), is not a Christian in the religious sense but in the philosophical sense only. Okay. If that is what you believe it's fine.
Well if the resurrected Jesus just reappeared in the same way that others have experiences of visions of loved ones who have died then once again we simply have another failed messiah. It makes Jesus simply a well meaning crank. But so far Jesus is still just a failed messiah but that does not mean the same as crank.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 429 by GDR, posted 11-20-2014 11:26 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 434 by GDR, posted 11-20-2014 12:36 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 439 of 675 (742483)
11-20-2014 1:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 434 by GDR
11-20-2014 12:36 PM
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Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
If Jesus was not resurrected as the first Jesus followers believed then he was a crank, which is not saying that His social message wasn't valid. It does mean though that there is no reason to give His message any more credibility than Gandhi or Buddha. Without the physical resurrection of Jesus, Christianity is a social movement only and is a sham as a religion. Come on. Don't sound like Faith. Is Taoism a religion? Is Buddhism a religion? Is Judaism a religion? Is Islam a religion?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 434 by GDR, posted 11-20-2014 12:36 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 448 by GDR, posted 11-20-2014 7:25 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 445 of 675 (742496)
11-20-2014 6:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 444 by Faith
11-20-2014 5:58 PM
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Re: Just read and believe the Bible for a change
Have you ever read the Bible Faith? When did Luke meet Jesus?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 444 by Faith, posted 11-20-2014 5:58 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 449 of 675 (742506)
11-20-2014 9:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 448 by GDR
11-20-2014 7:25 PM
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Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
So a religion is possible without Jesus actual resurrection?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 448 by GDR, posted 11-20-2014 7:25 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 451 by GDR, posted 11-21-2014 2:12 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 452 of 675 (742531)
11-21-2014 8:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 451 by GDR
11-21-2014 2:12 AM
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Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
So Christianity, today's Christianity is possible even if Jesus never really existed?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 451 by GDR, posted 11-21-2014 2:12 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 459 by GDR, posted 11-21-2014 10:46 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 457 of 675 (742537)
11-21-2014 10:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 456 by Faith
11-21-2014 9:46 AM
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Re: Just read and believe the Bible for a change
Faith writes: Just read it and believe it. That's the only way you'll get the answers to your questions. How can you actually do that and still deal with all the contradictions?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 456 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 9:46 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 460 of 675 (742541)
11-21-2014 10:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 459 by GDR
11-21-2014 10:46 AM
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Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
If people believe then does it matter whether or not the belief is based on reality? And aren't Taoism and Buddhism religions? And is God alive? Can you apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity? But did Jesus command anyone to worship a living Jesus? What are the two Great Commandments?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 459 by GDR, posted 11-21-2014 10:46 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 471 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 2:08 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 465 of 675 (742553)
11-21-2014 4:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 463 by Faith
11-21-2014 3:56 PM
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Try actually reading the Bible Faith
Jesus said Repent and believe. That's all we're supposed to do. You really haven't read the Bible have you Faith.
quote:
And one of them, a doctor of the Law, putting him to the test, asked him, "Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?" Jesus said to him, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 463 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 3:56 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 466 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 5:49 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 467 of 675 (742558)
11-21-2014 7:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 466 by Faith
11-21-2014 5:49 PM
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Re: Try actually reading the Bible Faith
Of course you can, unless you are a Calvinist. We can love God and our neighbors whether we have ever heard of Jesus or any gospels or repented anything. The end is no more at hand today than it was 2000 years ago. Following the two Great Commandments is about living, not dying. But Calvinists have never been able to do that.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 466 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 5:49 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 473 of 675 (742578)
11-22-2014 8:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 471 by GDR
11-22-2014 2:08 AM
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Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
GDR writes: jar writes: If people believe then does it matter whether or not the belief is based on reality?
Truth matters LOL But there is no way while still alive to know the truth when it comes to whether or not Jesus actually lived at all.
GDR writes: jar writes: And is God alive?
Yes
jar writes: Can you apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity?
Unknowable If it is unknowable to apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity then how can you answer "Yes" to the question "Is God alive?"
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 471 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 2:08 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 474 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 10:27 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 476 of 675 (742595)
11-22-2014 10:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 474 by GDR
11-22-2014 10:27 AM
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Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
...and there is no way we can actually know whether Julius Caesar lived or not. Actually yes, we can know whether or not Julius Caesar lived or not with a VERY high degree of certainty. But that is not at all true when it comes to Jesus. There are no coins bearing Jesus likeness, no statues, no non Biblical contemporary references but we have all of those things when it comes to Julius Caesar.
It is my belief that God is alive. If you are talking about a generic supernatural entity then I have no idea.
How do you apply the terms alive or dead to God? What does that mean?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 474 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 10:27 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 479 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 11:52 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 481 of 675 (742646)
11-22-2014 3:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 479 by GDR
11-22-2014 11:52 AM
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Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
The Bible is an anthology of anthologies edited by a bias group who decided what the content would be.
GDR writes: However, I agree we can't know that Jesus existed just as we can't know he didn't. There is no evidence to show that He didn't. Nor have I tried to show Jesus never existed. What I have said is it doesn't really matter; Christianity today and in the past was based on belief not facts.
GDR writes: jar writes: How do you apply the terms alive or dead to God? What does that mean? You tell me. You asked the question. But I cannot tell you since I cannot see how the terms alive or dead can have any meaning in relation to a supernatural entity. I do not assert that God is alive or Jesus is alive. AbE:
GDR writes: However, the Bible is not one source. There are several authors talking about Jesus in several books that are collected together. In addition as Luke says in his Gospel the Gospels themselves come from a variety of sources. But it is not a red herring or even a slippery dick. How many authors have written about King Arthur or Robin Hood or Sherlock Holmes or Dick Tracy? And their sources come from a variety of sources. Edited by jar, : see AbE:
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 479 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 11:52 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 507 by GDR, posted 11-24-2014 5:19 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 486 of 675 (742657)
11-22-2014 4:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 485 by Faith
11-22-2014 4:28 PM
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Re: Read it and believe it
But of course he was wrong Faith, wasn't he, the kingdom of God was not at hand and still is not at hand plus not one of the Gospels even existed when Jesus was supposed to have said that.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 485 by Faith, posted 11-22-2014 4:28 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 488 by Faith, posted 11-22-2014 7:03 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 491 of 675 (742662)
11-22-2014 7:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 488 by Faith
11-22-2014 7:03 PM
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Re: Read it and believe it
So it jess came and went? Oh come on Faith.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 488 by Faith, posted 11-22-2014 7:03 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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