Summations Only

Do you consider someone who accepts current scientific conclusions regarding evolution, BB etc. and who also believes in, and worships, God to be a "true Christian"?Are you a "truer" Christian than they?If so how?

Do you consider someone who accepts current scientific conclusions regarding evolution, BB etc. and who also believes in, and worships, God to have been "saved"?In your opinion is it possible to accept these scientific conclusions and to accept God to the point of being saved? Or not.If not why not?

This thread is about creationists unjustifiably equating 'evolutionists' with atheists.I am trying to find out if this equivalence exists at all in your mind or not.As usual you are kind of missing the point of the questions posed so far. So I will stop skirting around the edges and just ask the questions outright.Do you explicitly associate theories like BB and evolution with atheism?
Do you think that those who advocate such theories are either actually atheists or have been been brainwashed into believing "atheistic" falsehoods?

OK. OK.If you can see that acceptance of these theories is not incompatible with a beliefe in God then I am unclear as to why you feel the need to so stubbornly and relentlessly oppose these theories?Why do you and other creationists continually insist that these theories are put in place primarily to do away with a need for God to exist?You have said this previously (esp in relation to the BB) in other threads. I can search around for quotes from you if you are going to claim that this is not so?

Well finally we get to the meat of the situation. So such theories are ultimately the work of the devil. The devil wishes us to deny God. Therefore you view these theories to be God denying although not exactly atheistic as such.Is that a fair summary?You must admit that to claim something is God denying but not atheistic is a pretty subtle distinction?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

No. I have only limited interest in fantasy figures. So BB, evolution etc. are ultimately the work of the devil. The devil wishes us to deny the need for salvation. Therefore you view these theories to be salvation denying and thus anti-Christian although not atheistic as such.Is that a fair summary?Can you see why claiming something is salvation denying and thus anti-Christian but not atheistic is a pretty subtle distinction in a predominantly Christian culture?

I did not say the devil had any authority.
I said that, based on your own statements, the devil seeks for us to deny the need for salvation.
According to you he attempts to do this through (amongst other things) theories like BB and evolution.
Therefore these theories support a position which denies a need for salvation.
Therefore those who advocate such theories have been deceived by the devil into advocating a position that denies the need for salvation.Is that a fair summary?Can you see why claiming something is denying the need for salvation, and thus anti-Christian, but not atheistic is a pretty subtle distinction in a predominantly Christian culture?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Which takes us all the way back to where we started before you brought the devil or salvation into the equation back in Message 69Can you see why your claim that the theories in question suggest that "God does not exist and if He does we don't need him" whilst also claiming that they are not atheistic is a pretty subtle distinction? Is it possible to be a Christian and not seek salvation through Jesus Christ? I thought that was kinda the point of the whole deal? In a predominantly Christian culture denying the Christian God without advocating a different God is obviously going to be viewed as atheism. Regardimg these last few comments you may well be right. But your comment here is very much on topic.
Why do creationists often seem to confuse evolutionists and atheists?
Well according to you it is because the theory of evolution is a work of deceit by the devil designed to convince us that "God does not exist and if He does we don't need him"This very much answers Percy's OP. It seems that in terms of opinion, even if not action, you are exactly the sort of creationist he is talking about.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Well I wish I had asked that now.Good point. Thankyou for making it for me.

After a slightly circular and protracted discussion with ICANT it seems that we have an answer to the question implied in your OP.Regarding scientific theories such as evolution and the Big Bang ICANT says: From Message 71From Message 77From Message 68However he also says that such theories are not explicitly atheistic in his view: From Message 68So, according to ICANT, the theory of evolution is the work of the devil advocated by those who have been deceived by the devil and who are proposing that God is unnecessary and/or non-existent despite not actually being atheists.If this is how other creationists think then I guess it explains the confusion between 'evolutionists' and atheists that you highlight in your OP?

I know some theists (quite possibly some here at EvC) who consider the whole biblical literalist/creationsit movement to diminish "the glory, power and majestic supremacy" of God as they view Him to be.Is the biblical literalist position the work of Satan too?Go figure.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

"Preposterous" in your view.It could equally be argued that limiting and restricting ones concept of God's majesty to a banal literal interpretation of the greatest work of intricate metaphor and complex allegory known to man is also preposterous.It depends on ones point of view.

No. You are ignorant to think that you, and the few that follow the same narrow path that you follow, are immune to this deceit, while all others have been deceived.Your confidence in this is borne of ignorance. Not reason.

No ICANT. Nobody is calling you ignorant because you believe in God. Yet again you entirely miss the point.There are many who believe in God who, by the criteria defined by you, have also been deceived.You are being called ignorant because of the baseless assertion that all but you (and those few that believe as you do) have been deceived. You are being called ignorant because of the baseless assertion that your beliefs, and no-one elses, are immune to such deception.You can no more know what others know than they can know what you know.Thus your assertions are borne of ignorance. Not reason.

Exactly. Your confidence is borne of your ignorance and your need to be right. It is not borne of reason.Many think as you do on this issue.They also know that they are right regarding which path is the right one. But they have chosen a different path to you.They believe equally that you have been decieved as you do they. Many others also believe themselves to accept what God says whilst believing something completely different to you.Who has been decieved here? Maybe they are more enlightened than you. Maybe you have been decieved and not they.Who really can tell?Thus your confidence in the path you have taken is borne of ignorance. Not reason.Have the last word on this if you wish. This is now getting relatively off topic.