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Author | Topic: The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If we believe that everyone is saved initially by Gods Grace, the Satanist would not have to jump through theological hoops...they would have to acknowledge God as sovereign over their free will, however. Did you or did you not say that God knows all that they will think? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I did say that God knows what everyone will think
so... in response to the flow of this discussion, God would foreknow that a Satanist would choose to be a Satanist. The question is whether God would have allowed that individual every chance at rationally deciding their future. If the Satanist had been given a jaded view of who God was or who Christ was, they would not really be making a rational and free decision. If, on the other hand, God actually had one last time to speak to their heart and soul right as they died, if they still freely rejected Him and even if He knew, He would not be evil for mere foreknowledge.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The question is whether God would have allowed that individual every chance at rationally deciding their future. If the Satanist had been given a jaded view of who God was or who Christ was, they would not really be making a rational and free decision. If, on the other hand, God actually had one last time to speak to their heart and soul right as they died, if they still freely rejected Him and even if He knew, He would not be evil for mere foreknowledge. Did you agree God creates everything that is, seen and unseen? Did you agree that God foreknows everything a person will think? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jar writes: Yes, but I may consider the open theistic argument....since IF God knows everything unseen, He leaves us with no real freewill.... but....since I have to make a stand, I will say that God ultimately foreknows everything seen and unseen...yes.
Did you agree God creates everything that is, seen and unseen? Jar writes: *sigh* Yes.
Did you agree that God foreknows everything a person will think?
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If that is true, then what you said in Message 32
The question is whether God would have allowed that individual every chance at rationally deciding their future. If the Satanist had been given a jaded view of who God was or who Christ was, they would not really be making a rational and free decision. If, on the other hand, God actually had one last time to speak to their heart and soul right as they died, if they still freely rejected Him and even if He knew, He would not be evil for mere foreknowledge. is simply a farce. God already knows what the person will choose. Is that correct? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I suppose that technically, yes. God knows what the person ultimately will choose.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I suppose that technically, yes. God knows what the person ultimately will choose. Okay. So according to you, your God created someone that She knew would reject her. Next step. Is the Satanist who rejects God saved? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jar writes: Well...if so, there is no Hell. also if so, it obviously does not matter how people behave. Next step. Is the Satanist who rejects God saved? without getting into all that, I'll just say that this is where Im not sure of my belief. If I choose universalism, I would say that the Satanist is saved. If I choose exclusivism, I would say that the satanist is cooked. So I guess I am forced to either choose whether God chooses us or whether we choose God. Many say that God chooses all yet we must respond. Others say that it does not matter what we choose.... I confess Im stuck at this point. I'll go with God doing the choosing. Gods mercy is infinite. Does this mean that nobody goes to Hell, then?
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You are trying to change the subject.
I asked:
Okay. So according to you, your God created someone that She knew would reject her. Next step. Is the Satanist who rejects God saved? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
OK. I'll say No, for the purpose of this argument.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So belief in God is not necessary for salvation.
Correct? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jar writes: So belief in God is not necessary for salvation. Assuming that all are saved, I guess not.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There you go adding qualifiers.
Think something through for a change. Did God create the Satanist? Did God have foreknowledge of what the Satanist would think and do? Will the Satanist be saved? Is belief necessary for salvation? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jar writes: Thats the question, is it not? Did God create the Satanist?Phat writes: Not as a Satanist. God creates freewill Beings, not preprogrammed automatons. Did God have foreknowledge of what the Satanist would think and do?Phat writes: Yes. God foreknows what will happen, IMB> Open Theists disagree, as I said earlier. Will the Satanist be saved? Phat writes: Unknowable, except that my belief is that the self proclaimed Satanist will have every opportunity to allow their consciousness to be fully influenced. Is belief necessary for salvation?I don't know. Does God give us the full opportunity to make the best decision that we can make? Is there a better way than our own freewilled ways? Does God care?
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You are being inconsistent again.
You said God foreknows every decision that will be made. If that is the case there is no freewill and God most certainly did create the Satanist. If we are going to get anywhere you need to stop simply changing what you believe every other line. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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