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Author
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Topic: Before Big Bang God or Singularity
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 131 of 405 (453074)
02-01-2008 11:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 119 by Rahvin
02-01-2008 10:22 AM
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Re: Re-Summation
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: ICANT, time is part of space-time. Yes and according to the Big Bang Theory time came into existence at T=0 or T=0+, space, matter and everything that what you can see came from. I build things. I have to have materials. They have to come from somewhere. Somebody has to manufacture the plywood, roofing materials, block, etc. These materials have to be made from something. That something has to come from somewhere. Trees, oil products, or materials in the ground. That material had to come from somewhere. I am told that it came from the singularity. OK where did the singularity come from? The singularity came from a point in space-time caused by the positive curvature of that space-time. Then I am told that space and time was created in the Big Bang. OK where did the Big Bang come from? The singularity. But wait a minute the singularity had to come from the Big Bang as there was no space and time matter or anything. To me that looks like circular reasoning to me. Like the question, Which came first the chicken or the egg? Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 119 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 10:22 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 132 of 405 (453079)
02-01-2008 11:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 127 by Rahvin
02-01-2008 11:00 AM
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Re-Summation
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Why does it need to be "created?" Then it had to come from an absence of anything. Simple Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 127 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 11:00 AM | | Rahvin has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 133 of 405 (453080)
02-01-2008 11:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 123 by Modulous
02-01-2008 10:50 AM
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Re: Space-time
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes: No, your view is that time stretches into infinity in both directions. The view I explained can have the time dimension with a finite 'length'. If it has always been how can it end? What will cause the end? Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 123 by Modulous, posted 02-01-2008 10:50 AM | | Modulous has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 134 of 405 (453081)
02-01-2008 11:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 126 by cavediver
02-01-2008 10:57 AM
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Re-Summation
Hi cavediver,
cavediver writes: Why should it need creating? Why can it not just be?
You lost me somewhere along the line. Could you please give me your rendition of "The Big Bang Theory""? Thanks,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 126 by cavediver, posted 02-01-2008 10:57 AM | | cavediver has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 141 of 405 (453095)
02-01-2008 11:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 127 by Rahvin
02-01-2008 11:00 AM
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Re: Re-Summation
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Why does it have to "come from" anything at all? Why does it need to be "created?" Either: It came from something. It was created. It always existed. Are there any other choices? Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 127 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 11:00 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 145 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 12:12 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 142 of 405 (453097)
02-01-2008 12:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 138 by tesla
02-01-2008 11:50 AM
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Re: Re-Summation
Hi tesla,
tesla writes: the true answer is the first chicken came with the first egg. Correct answer you get an A+. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 138 by tesla, posted 02-01-2008 11:50 AM | | tesla has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Re-Summation
Hi Scientist,
Catholic Scientest writes: Here is the animation of the energence. Nice. Could you explain where the dark gray membrane on the left came from? If your answer is the 5th dimension then where did it come from? Thanks,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 147 of 405 (453108)
02-01-2008 12:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 145 by Rahvin
02-01-2008 12:12 PM
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Re-Summation
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: The Universe exists at every point on the timeline, because time is a dimension of the Universe. There is no time at which the Universe did not exist. By definition, the Universe has always existed. If it has always existed and the Big Bang Theory is that it came into existence then the Big Bang Theory is False. Thanks for agreeing with:
Premise 1: Singularity including the Big Bang is the best explanation for the orgin of the universe. Falasified Message 91 Have fun now,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 145 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 12:12 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 150 of 405 (453112)
02-01-2008 12:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 144 by Modulous
02-01-2008 12:11 PM
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Re: Space-time
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes: It hasn't 'always' been. You're still not thinking in 4 dimensions. You have to avoid using temporal words, or at least understand how they don't work. Here you say, "it has not always been."
Message 116Modulous writes: No, I'm saying the big bang is not about spawning the universe. The big bang is just part of the universe just like any other part of the universe we might give a name. The universe doesn't 'come into existence' at the big bang. The universe exists - past, present and future as one four dimensional entity. Here you say:"The universe exists - past, present and future". That is saying the universe has always been unless you want to qualify your statement to include a beginning. I thought that is what the Big Bang Theory was to the static universe and gave the universe a beginning. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 144 by Modulous, posted 02-01-2008 12:11 PM | | Modulous has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 152 of 405 (453115)
02-01-2008 12:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 148 by cavediver
02-01-2008 12:24 PM
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Re-Summation
Hi cavediver,
ICANT writes: If it has always existed and the Big Bang Theory is that it came into existence then the Big Bang Theory is False. cavediver writes: Why is the Big Bang false? I called my buddy at the insane asylum and asked for his take on this. He said if something always existed and something else said it came into existence 13 to 20 billion years ago one of them had to be false. Therefore I conclude if it has always existed then the Big Bang Theory has to be false. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 148 by cavediver, posted 02-01-2008 12:24 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Space-time
Hi Scientist,
Catholic Scientist writes: There you go thinking again.... Yes that is a stupid thing to do wastes a lot of time. Maybe I should just accept what everybody else says and not question anything. But cavediver said that was a stupid question if I don't ask it. Static Theory is that the universe has always existed. Big Bang Theory is that the universe definitely had a beginning. So correct my thinking. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 155 of 405 (453122)
02-01-2008 1:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 136 by Rahvin
02-01-2008 11:35 AM
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Re-Summation
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: No. As has been explained to you, T=0 is simply a point in time. Yes you have pointed it out several times. But Time did not exist for T=0 to exist in. Time was created in the Big Bang.
Rahvin writes: Your analogy has no basis in physics or Big Bang cosmology. There is not reason beyond your incredulity that the Universe needs an actual "beginning." But The Big Bang Theory says it does have a beginning. Are you saying the Theory is False?
Rahvin writes: You were not told that space and time were created in the Big Bang. Go back and read what cavediver actually told you. The Singularity is a feature of the Universe at T=0, not the "cause" of anything. I asked cavediver for his rendition of a definition for the Big Bang Theory I haven't seen it yet. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 136 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 11:35 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 160 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 1:54 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Space-time
Hi Scientest,
Catholic Scientist writes: There is no point in time at which the Universe did not exist because time is a part of the Universe and does not exist without it. I am getting drunk going around in that circle. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 161 of 405 (453137)
02-01-2008 2:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 157 by Modulous
02-01-2008 1:31 PM
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Re=T=0
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes: At some points the local mass density is so great it distorts space time and forms a singularity. T=0 is one such point. OK at this point, where did it come from? Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 157 by Modulous, posted 02-01-2008 1:31 PM | | Modulous has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 163 of 405 (453142)
02-01-2008 2:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 159 by tesla
02-01-2008 1:48 PM
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Re: Space-time
Hi tesla,
tesla writes: why do you end your statements with "have fun"? RAZD ues Enjoy and I don't want to infringe on his using it.
tesla writes: it can be inflammatory, not that it is your intention, but its apparently condescending given the nature of the conversation.
I am just a Bible thumping pastor who is a born again child of the King. But if that is the way it comes over I do not intend it to be so. I will change to this one. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 159 by tesla, posted 02-01-2008 1:48 PM | | tesla has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 167 by tesla, posted 02-01-2008 2:18 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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