Are we prisoners of sin

This is simply untrue, and such a ridiculous statement that I wonder how it ever crossed your mind. The concept of morality exists in practically every religion and every society lacking a religious base as well. A reasonable person would then conclude that the concept of morality does not depend on a specific concept of a deity, rather it is an inherent element of society or organization. Thus something that is immoral cannot be fully defined as something that goes against that single deity's will.Cedre, I don't think anyone is arguing that they never do things that some people, or even a majority of people, believe to be morally wrong. The point is that "sin" is not a universal concept and those who do not believe in the existence of that deity are similarly going to dismiss the possibility of going against its will. This has no bearing on if the fictional deity's will generally conforms to accepted morality; if the being does not exist then going against its will is similarly a fictional concept.I understand that you throw a tangle into this simple concept due to your steadfast dedication to your imaginary overlord. I am not asking for proof of sin, because I know you cannot give it. I am not asking for proof of your god's existence, because I know you cannot give it. I am not asking for you to join rational society and distinguish fantasy from reality because you have demonstrated that you are unable or unwilling to do so. What I AM asking is that you recognize the link between your religious beliefs and your claims of the existence of sin, and behave similarly when asserting their existence. I trust you do not doggedly repeat accusations that we all love Jesus in our hearts even when we deny it, so I will thank you to avoid claiming a similar knowledge of sin.

You seem to be unwilling to consider the idea that people live their lives with no thought or idea of sin. I do not have a belief in sin. I have my personal idea of right and wrong but not sin. SIN REQUIRES A BELIEF IN THE SUPERNATURAL AND MYTHOLOGY. Some times lying is a good thing. Being truthful 100% of the time would make a person a social misfit. I probably wouldn't take it. Somethings in my book are just wrong. Have I stolen? Of course everyone does, but that does not make a person evil or bad, it makes them human. All the time and I even masturbate. These things are not wrong or evil. They are normal and natural. My wife knows I "lust" at other women and has no problems with it. This is just an example of christianity and its history of sexual repression. How is this different than #2?Ok this is just getting boring and stupid. Till you realize that a lot of us do not consider any of this sin, because we don't believe in sin, this thread is a waste. Sin 1. transgression of divine law: the sin of Adam.1 I don't believe in a divine law.
2 Sin is breaking a divine law.
3 Therefore, I have no belief in sin

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

You're changing the question. I never said I haven't made mistakes, I said I don't find it difficult to do what is right or to do good. I'm not sure why you feel that it is an either or, all or nothing scenerio.I can't say I've never lied, but I repent and I don't lie to save my butt. I fess up and take the rap much easier.No I don't steal. Yes I would return the item. I even go back to pay for an item the cashier missed on the receipt. I correct the cashier at the movie when they were going to let me in for free, but the coupon didn't say free. So I paid.Since I'm a heterosexual woman, no I don't look at other women with lust. No I don't look at other men with lust.No I don't take what belongs to others.I don't carry $100 bucks with me, so not able to speculate what I would do. Alms are what we give to the poor on the street. I have loaned $700 to a homeless young lady for a car and only received a portion of it back. We also took her into our home for a period of time. When I lend it is with the idea that I probably won't get the money back. Only the one person didn't pay me back.I don't get in fights, but when I'm wrong I appologize. I can only forgive someone who asks for forgiveness from me. Those who ask are forgiven.Anyone can say yes, but until the situation presents itself it's just words. I can't speculate on what I might do. All I can say is that I would do my best in whatever situation arises.

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Purpledawn you have to give me examples of nations and tribes, where people live in peace and complete harmony, where people can live their windows and doors open at night, live their property outside unattended, and sleep peacefully at night with all doors unlocked and all windows unsecured. Supply me with examples where people will go on holidays to far away places and live property not secured.

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Why? Again, why all or nothing? I don't claim that no one does anything wrong. Why do you expect utopia?Some places have more crime than others. Some places have war. Some places have peace. This doesn't make all people prisoners of sin or unable to do good.

Yep. and many times. I do not regard this as a sin though. I would return it. More than daydream sometimes (yes, painfully honest). Also, I do not regard this as a sin. Yes, if by that last bit you mean steal it then no, if you mean obtain it through legal means then yes. Nope. Oh dollars! Yeah sure, they're worthless anyway. . But seriously, no I wouldn't. Forgive him? He's done nothing wrong, why should I forgive him. I'd just tell him he's wrong, if he keeps on whining he's right I'll just walk away. Depends on the situation. Since I don't seem to have committed any sin (in fact, I say there is no such thing as a sin except for people who are religious types). Do I pass?

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I hunt for the truth

Person A steals things. Person A lives in a community with person B and person C. Person B is a normal person who does little things here and there that may be considered "wrong" but doesn't do major things, like steal, murder, or rape. Person C is perfectly honest, wouldn't hurt a fly, bends over backwards to help others and a lie has never touched their lips. Because B and C both know that A lives in their community, they buy a lock and leave their valuable property in their locked house. Does that mean person C is a prisoner of sin? No, it means person C and person B for that matter, have a sense of reality that there are SOME out there who have little to no sense of wrong. But I'm of the type that thinks one bad egg doesn't spoil the whole batch. I guess you'd be the type who thinks the opposite.So, out of person A, B, or C, who do you think is a prisoner of sin? You would have to say all three, or your philosophy loses all merit. (By the way, I've known people like all three. I consider myself like person B)

I do.The founder of Christianity believed them to be true too. Being the Son of God he saw all the events from the heavens. Now if they were merely allegorical, why would he speak of such things as real events?The only conclusion is that Jesus spoke about them because he believed that they really happened.He spoke about the Flood and Noah.

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Matthew 24:36 " For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as people were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

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ORLY lolwell you can believe it was magic if you want, I'll opt for the more sensible belief that the tree was a representation of Gods rulership.God has always provided us with physical representations for spiritual things. The tree of Knowledge was one of them. Just as the Temple was one of them and the High Priest was another...and many more that would warrant a new thread.As for the snake, it was merely used by the devil as a puppet in an attempt to fool Eve... and it worked obviously .

I am at a loss to understand why the rate meter for this thread keeps climbing so sharply, aren't we discussing sin? I particularly opened this thread so that people could discuss sin, and everything that has been posted so far I think has not strayed from the topic. Morality is one issue that has been thoroughly hammered out in here, Which I think is extremely important for this thread, If people won't agree on an absolute right and wrong then the question of sin becomes null and void, so morality as a topic is crucial to this thread. Please don't be silent let us know, where are we missing the mark, where are we going wrong? Reveal this knowledge to us before raising the rate meter another inch.

I believe in God, however, and I believe that God understands me better than I do myself. I am willing to take any discipline that must come my way.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Sin in one's life doesn't of necessity have to be noisy and axiomatic all the time perdition sin can also be subtle and silent. With the finite knowledge we have we cannot know everything about others. That is once you’re away you have no way of knowing what secret sins or secret addictions a friend or a family member might have an issue with. Everyone has got his/her own problems and issues; I am yet to encounter a perfect individual and I’m sure you have yet to too.Even those supposedly perfect few individuals are not so perfect at closer-inspection. It is a universal truth that everyone has got skeletons in his/her closet, some of us may only have parts of a skeleton but some of us may have multiple entire skeletons. But God is not at all bothered by the number of skeletons one is keeping in his/her closet, as long as you have a skeleton hanging in your closet you are guilty in the eyes of God.Remember sin is missing a mark set by God; it is failing to meet the requirements of his perfect standard. Now even when we omit God from the discussion, everyone still has lied and probably does still from time to time when the so-called need arises, and whether it is murder or just being dishonest, we all have things we struggle with and things we would like to change in our lives. Getting angry too fast, impatience, laziness, gluttony, selfishness, greediness, unfaithfulness and all that, in God’s eyes most of this things are sin and all of them are unacceptable behavior.

that might be a more fitting title for this threadi can understand why a non religious person takes issue with being called a sinner.Its good for religious people to keep in mind that sin is 'missing the mark of perfection' rather then committing some sort of evilI'm sure no one, not even non religious people, would argue against imperfection.

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Even those supposedly perfect few individuals are not so perfect at closer-inspection.

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Show me that God requires us to be perfect as in never making the slightest mistake in thought or deed. I don't feel that he did.

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Getting angry too fast, impatience, laziness, gluttony, selfishness, greediness, unfaithfulness and all that, in God’s eyes most of this things are sin and all of them are unacceptable behavior.

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Show me that God finds all these behaviors, aside from unfaithfulness, to be unacceptable or a sin. Show me that God has made them known and not that mankind has discovered that these behaviors aren't in our best interest. BTW, Proverbs is the wisdom of mankind, not commands from God. The Psalms are songs of man, not commands from God.

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Remember sin is missing a mark set by God; it is failing to meet the requirements of his perfect standard.

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Even in religion to hold people accountable to a religious law or religious standard, the law or standard must be made known to those being held accountable. For example: I can be greedy and desire and selfishly gather more money than I truly need for a basic lifestyle, but until I break one of the laws or standards it is not sinful. If I work hard and all my transactions are legal and doesn't cause anyone harm, I've committed no sin. Having more money or property than you need is not sinful, but the means one used to get it could be. So to miss the mark set by God, one has to know the standard.In the Christian religion, the Old Testament is where God's standard was supposedly given to man. In the New Testament, Jesus did not change those standards, but he did teach ways to live up to the standard given by God in the Old Testament, not the fence added by man.If having more than one needs is a sin in itself, then some Christian evangelists and clergy are living in sin.So please be specific and show where God decrees that these behaviors in and of themselves are against his law or standard.Edited by purpledawn, : Added first question.

The rate meter has nothing to do with right or wrong. It deals with the amount of activity in the thread. More activity is a good thing for a thread.

The tree's not magic, the snake was the devil's puppet, but the story actually happened
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I suggest you get a new religious teacher.You're doing some major editing on this story and I'm not sure how you can reconcile any religious teachings with your version of the story.The Adam and Eve story is a Jewish foundational myth. It has a lesson to teach, but not necessarily taken as a literal event. Their faith isn't based on that story.Jesus referencing a familiar story while talking with Jews does not mean he felt it was a literal event. He used a story his audience was familiar with to make a point.Christians cleave to the Adam and Eve story because of the teaching of original sin, which is not a Jewish concept. It really doesn't add to a discussion on sin.Just read the story at face value like you would any other story. The magic is part of the story.The snake is not the devil. It's just a talking snake.