Are we prisoners of sin

I asked you to be specific.Jesus was asked which commandment was most important. He gave the most important commandment and then what he considered to be the second most important commandment. Do you realize that neither of these are part of the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20?The first one is from Leviticus 19:18 and the second is from Deuteronomy 6:5.Remember he didn't say these were the only commandments, just the most important and supposedly the "law and prophets hang on them" according to the author of Matthew. The author of Mark did not include that comment.Since these two were written after the Exodus 10 Commandments in Leviticus and Deuteronomy how can the law hang on them?So the question still stands. What do you consider to be the law(s) of God. Is it just the 10 commandments in Exodus 20 and these two commandments from Lev and Deut or do you include the whole kit and kaboodle or essentially the 613 laws followed by the Jews?

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So as a law, love when applied is superior because a person can obey all the other laws under compulsion but not have love. But if one has love, they will be motivated by that love to fullfill all of Gods laws....Laws that will be 'written on their hearts' as Jerimiah 31:33 says "I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people"

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God is love and love is perfect.

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So that would mean that any Christian who breaks one of God's Laws (when we find out what they are specifically) does not love God and therefore the laws are not written on their heart.Is the love law really a law that carries a penalty? Your "law" of love conflicts between doctrine and Jesus. The idea that Jesus died as atonement for our sins would negate the commandment that Jesus considered most important, love God.If as you say loving God allows the laws to be written on our "hearts" and allows us to follow Gods law with no problem, there would be no need for Jesus to be an atonement for future sins.If Jesus was a sacrifice to atone for our sins, then there really isn't any point to loving God.God is love and love is perfect is a metaphor that means nothing. To know what is perfect one has to know what the standard is. It is a nice catch phrase and great for creating emotion, but doesn't really mean anything.What you and cedre are presenting is a religion that lacks confidence. The doctrines you espouse try to cover all the possible bases. It isn't consistent. You can't even tell me clearly what constitutes God's Law.

It feels like no matter how many times certain people see or hear the truth they will still no accept it, and this is exactly what's happening here. You will always have a counterargument to everything I say even if it makes a lot of sense.But enough about that let me deal with your paragraph. Who gave you the idea that if it isn't written in the synoptic gospels it isn't inspired, if the rest of the new testament isn't inspired of God then it wouldn't have been included in the bible now would it? Because the earliest Christians even the apostles had accepted Paul's teaching even his correction, and what is more the original disciples and Paul did correspond and even meet, they even got to here Paul’s teachings and had he preached something differently from what the disciples had been taught by Christ they would immediately have said so but they did no such thing. This is further proof that what Paul and others wrote about God outside of the synoptic gospels can be trusted seeing that even the writers of the synoptic gospels saw no problem with what Paul taught and even met habitually for meetings.

Act 9:26 And when he was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: and they were all afraid of him, not believing that he was a disciple.
Act 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how at Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus.
Act 9:28 And he was with them going in and going out at Jerusalem,
Act 9:29 preaching boldly in the name of the Lord: and he spake and disputed against the Grecian Jews; but they were seeking to kill him.

What's more the many great miracles that Paul had done in view of others and the unexplained things that had happened to him on his journey surviving a fateful storm surviving a snake bite that ought to have killed him right on the spot, more to the point that he had not taken any antidote to reverse its effects. He did many more great things in the name of the lord, he casted demons out and healed the sick brought the dead back to live. All of this demonstrates that Paul was indeed called into ministry by Christ Jesus.
Here are instances where Jesus himself talked directly from heaven to Paul: Act 22:18 and saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem; because they will not receive of thee testimony concerning me.; Act 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee forth far hence unto the Gentiles.So not only was Paul in touch with the original disciples but he also performed miracles, and even had Jesus directly talk to him. Evidence that in deed Paul taught and wrote what Jesus himself had told him.

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This petition would not be authorized unless there was some basis for God’s forgiveness of us. The basis for it is not just his love and mercy because Gods perfect justice requires death for sin.
So the basis for forgiveness is his love and mercy expressed in the human sacrifice of his Son Jesus Christ which completely met all the demands of justice in our behalf...that is 'Life for Life' ie Jesus paid our debt to God, the debt that Adam handed down to us namely sin & death.
When Jesus taught this prayer in the sermon on the mount he had already pronounced the forgiveness of the sins of a number whom he healed. So it was to be understood that God’s forgiveness would be through Christ Jesus. And part of becoming a follower of Christ is to let go of all hatred and to Love your enemies which requires forgiveness on the part of the christian.

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this is why Jesus taught his followers to pray for forgiveness of their sins ...'just as they have forgiven others'... otherwise they could not be his followers.

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Did you understand the question?If Jesus was a sacrifice to atone for our sins, why continue today to ask God on a weekly basis to forgive us as we forgive others?

Thats why we are in a debate forum! We are not here to all agree with each other and hold hands and sing songs, are we? Personally, I grow more when challenged by people rather than when everyone says "good point! You are wise!" or
"Amen, Brother! Testify!"Also....explain to me exactly what this truth is. Is the truth Jesus? If so, I agree with you that Jesus is true, alive, and eternal.I still like to debate and argue, however! I have been known to take a side in an argument opposite of my actual beliefs just for the practice.

Well the answer is simple, if Jesus had never died four sins, we would not have had forgiveness of our sins at all, and we wouldn't have had a way to escape the penalty of sin which is death and the condemnation of the soul to hell. By dying Jesus overcame death and hell, sickness and so on, so what Jesus did for us was to offer us a chance to have our sins washed away by accepting him first and foremost and retain salvation as such. Now Jesus died for our sins once and for all,

Rom 6:10 When Christ died, he died for sin once and for all. But now he is alive, and he lives only for God.

this does not mean that we can sin as we will not at all, this means that he doesn't have to die again when we sin sometime in the future. This means that unlike in the old Judaic sacrificial system where an animal had to be offered up each time the sins of Israel accumulated, Jesus doesn’t have to be re-crucified every time an individual commits a sin.
But God can only forgive you your sins if you confess them, and when you confess your sins then that spilled blood of Jesus will wash your sins away all over a again.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his transgressions shall not prosper: But whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall obtain mercy.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We have to confess our sins, if god had forgiven us once and for all then why would he give us the Lord’s Prayer. And keep on telling us to confess our sins even after his death by way of his disciples. As seen above.
Without Jesus death, even with confession there was no washing away of sins so you still had the sin you inherited from Adam and the sins you yourself committed, and all these sin had to be paid for in full with blood, the wages of sin is death. But Jesus took the flack for us and he died and overcame death and sin, thus paying our prize in full for us. But now god will not only forgive us of sin but he will forget it and remember not our sins, because they have been washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Apparently you didn't comprehend what I quoted from the OT in Message 113. You need to decide if the death of Jesus was the payment for sin or the forgiveness of sin. If he was the payment and the forgiveness then the prayer is useless since Jesus explained in Matthew that if we didn't forgive others God wouldn't forgive us. If Paul is right then we are to forgive as Jesus forgave us. If we have to keep asking we aren't already forgiven.So what you're saying is that we still have to repent of our sins; and we still have to ask God to forgive our sins; but we don't have to pay the fine for our sin, which you claim is always death. You still haven't said whether this is a physical death or spiritual death or something that only takes place after physical death. So we're pretty much in the same place the Hebrews were before the building of the 1st Temple and right where the Jews were after the destruction of the 2nd Temple that ended sacrifices.As I showed you many times, death was not always the penalty for sin and the one's that did carry a death penalty were usually intentional sins that sacrifices did not cover.A man on death row is still going to die for his sin even though he confesses and accepts Christ. Adultery doesn't carry a death penalty in the United States and aside from the extreme murder cases or treason nothing else in our legal system carries the death penalty. So what death are you talking about.Please address what I've said and cut the meaningless catch phrases. Make a reasonable explanation.

i understand it perfectly.But if you believe that the devil is an allegorical figure then we would have to say that God and the heavens and the Angels are also allegorical figures according to JOB 1:4-8in this account, Satan is said to enter heaven and had a conversation with God...so, lets throw the bible away because there must be no God and therefore all religion is futile.

How does one know that it is the truth. Where is the evidence?
I mean physical evidence not bible stories.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

i know neither of them are one of the 10 commandments but you will find them in the Mosaic law code. The reason why Jesus said that they were the most important is because if one lives by love, they will naturally abide by ALL of Gods other laws. It doesnt really matter now because the Mosaic law only proved that no one can fully live by the laws of God. Each of those mosaic laws were supposed to be obeyed to the letter, but no one could do it. We are born into sin and it makes it very difficult for us to live perfect lives that live according to Gods standards. Btw his standards are the 10 commandments and all of the mosaic laws are derived from those 10.this is why Jesus said that the greatest of all Gods commandments are 'Love'
Because in our sinful condition, there is no possible way for us to meet the standard set by God. And he knows this, so he did away with the mosaic law and introduce the 'Law of the Christ' which is 'Love'. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, I am writing YOU these things that YOU may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s"Christians are like anyone else, we all miss the mark of perfection, we all sin...yet we are able to approach God for forgiveness thru Jesus because Jesus carries the burden of our sins for us. It does not negate anything. We are already carrying a penalty, not for lack of love, but for sinfulness. That penalty is death.
Jesus role was to reverse this situation we are in. And it all happened by Gods will... so Jesus role does not over ride Gods role as the one who made it all possible.Matt 26:27"Also, he took a cup and, having given thanks, he gave it to them, saying: 'Drink out of it, all of YOU; 28for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins." Your right. But the fact is that in our current condition, we can never express perfect love. This is the purpose of the Kingdom of God and Jesus role is to bring humans back to their intended perfect condition. Once this has been achieved, humans will no longer need a mediator between themselves and God. Humans can become reconciled to God just as it was for Adam and Eve before they sinned.1Cor 15:22For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. ...25For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. ...28But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone."Havnt' you ever asked yourself what the 'Kingdom' is that we were told to pray for?

because even though Jesus has died in our behalf, we are still in a sinful condition, the results were not instantaneous. This is still a work in progress and until the 1,000 year reign of the Messianic Kingdom comes to its completion, we will be imperfect.When we are perfect we will no longer need to ask for forgiveness. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

So God set us up to fail? That doesn't sound very good. If I make rules for my family such that I know they cannot meet them, then punish them for not meeting them, who's wrong, me or them? I would have to say me, therefore God is being immoral and not someone I would want to follow.

Back away from that shrimp, Peg! We wouldn't want to lose you to Sin!!

Repentance is an element of salvation in fact it doesn’t pave the way for salvation it follows the forgiveness of sins and salvation, and in and of itself it will not grant anyone salvation. In the Old Testament repentance implied a conscious, moral separation, and a personal decision to forsake sin and to enter into fellowship with God (Deu 4:30; Neh 1:9; Psa 7:12; Jer 3:14) Repentance in the Old Testament means To Turn or Return to the Lord. In the New Testament it means nearly the same thing it means To Turn over, To Turn upon, To Turn Unto. (Act 9:35; 1Th 1:9); (Act26:20). It also means to To Change the Mind (Mat 3:2; Mar 1:15; Act 2:38)
What does head salvation and God’s forgiveness is confession which is a state of owning up one’s wrongdoing:< blockquote>1Jn 1:9 If we CONFESS our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.Lev 5:5 And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall CONFESS that wherein he hath sinned:
Lev 5:6 and he shall bring his trespass-offering unto Jehovah for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin-offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him as concerning his sin.
Lev 16:21 and Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and CONFESS over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, even all their sins; and he shall put them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a man that is in readiness into the wilderness:
Lev 26:40 And they shall CONFESS their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, in their trespass which they trespassed against me, and also that, because they walked contrary unto me,
If you do not confess own up that you have wronged you are not forgiven, because forgiveness has to issue from admitting that you have sinned.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have not sinned, we are fooling ourselves, and the truth isn't in our hearts.
1John 1:9 But if we confess our sins to God, he can always be trusted to forgive us and take our sins away.
1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make God a liar, and his message isn't in our hearts.

Note in 1 john 1:9 the requirement for forgiveness is confessing your sins, your wrongdoing. Now what about repentance turning from our evil ways, logically one cannot turn from his/her sinful ways unless he/she first admit that he/she has got sin that he/she needs turning away from. Only after this can the individual start afresh on a clean slate. Good works will not grant any soul forgiveness but it will keep a person from further sin, but what about the sin the individual has accumulated up to that point. In the Old Testament animals were sacrificed to atone for past sins and good works and righteousness only kept individuals from indulging in further sin.So now we can better understand Jesus’ role in forgiveness and salvation. The soul has sinned, only blood can atone (Make amends for) for sin, Jesus ‘ blood is enough to atone for present past and future sins, if we confess our sins, he will automatically forgive us of our sins and wash us as white as snow,

((Act 22:16) What are you waiting for? Get up! Be baptized, and wash away your sins by praying to the Lord.")

we do not have to gun down a deer in the forest, because Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice, his blood will never run out. Every person who acknowledges his lordship will automatically have access to the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. It’s that easy.

Job is a fictional writing. Satan is a personification. The adversary.

Well, determining that the Bible is nothing more than mythology is a reasonable conclusion...