Summations Only

I never said I know the leprechaun is not supernatural, what I said is that we can only study those aspects that are natural. We have no way to study the supernatural.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Good thing that I didn't make that claim then.What I said was that we can only study what was natural. We can observe that the thing being study was here and then appeared over there. Being here is normal, being there is normal, getting from her to there is "unexplained" and so far you have not shown how that part gets studied.

Sorry but it seems that once again you and I will never reach a point of understanding. Yes, but also understand that if it is supernatural, no test or study will tell us anything since there is no way to study the supernatural.

I believe that GOD interacts with the world but I don't see a way that we can see those interactions.What we can see are those things that are wholly natural. There is no way to know if what is seen is natural or supernatural. I gave some examples of what I see as supernatural influence and interaction above; GOD influencing the doctor to try one more test before giving up diagnosis or GOD influencing someone to pause before stepping into the road and thus avoiding being hit. In such cases the person is unaware of any influence and there is nothing to show there was influence or interaction.We can study the after effects, the results; the doctor did one more test and found the diagnosis was something manageable or the person did not get run over; but I see no way to study the supernatural parts or that we could learn anything about the supernatural from what we can study. Not really. We can say that the cake has certain characteristic signatures, but that tells us nothing about the source.

Well you and your leprechaun have a good day.

Yes, GOD could be doing that and as I have been saying, you couldn't tell.

What you haven't shown is how observing the entirely natural results of a supernatural interaction can tell you anything about the supernatural.I can hold a belief in pennies from heaven but that is all that it is. The penny is still a penny and my finding the penny is still just natural.The question is "How can the supernatural be studied?" So far no one has shown a way to study that.

You can say that but it has no informational content that I can see.What is "whatever". Do you know anything about it? Can you say anything about what the cause was? Where is there any new information?

Yes, my belief is simply my belief and should never interfere or influence science or statements of testable knowledge.How am I opening the door to a very problematic worldview?

Word salad.Sorry but I knew that the cause of something can cause that thing.No new information.

Well, as I have said repeatedly, I can see no way that science could ever test the supernatural.That is only a limitation of science, one area where it's not useful.If that is understood, how is that a problematic worldview?

And you still haven't said anything that I see as related in any way to a problematic worldview.I have never said that the effects would not be detectable, only that I see no way that science can test, observe, explain or understand the supernatural.In your example you mentioned GOD placing false fingerprints at a crime scene and I said that I believe that would be possible.BUT, all we can go by is what science can show us and that is that the fingerprints were found at the crime scene.

I don't see any reason to doubt any evidence found.And correct, I do not find that problematic because we can only work with the knowledge available.

Not really. I would be unexplainable perhaps but not a problem.

Well all evidence could be planted; that is true today and yes, all knowledge should be taken with a heavy does of salt. Science does this by process and holds every conclusion tentative.But since as I have asserted throughout this thread there is no way to test the supernatural, we must simply work with what we do know.The fact that I know the chair I'm about to sit on is really not solid and just made up of a bunch of tiny things with more space than object does not keep me from sitting down with a high degree of confidence that the chair will support my ass.