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Author Topic:   Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 1 of 928 (728651)
05-31-2014 10:33 PM


This topic is intended as a spin-off of various discussions of businesses not wanting to cater to gays, which are probably primarily found at the Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID topic.
So, my question is as in the topic title: Where should there be "The right to refuse service?"
One question has been a baker supplying a wedding cake to a gay couple. The liberal (for lack of a better term) side of the argument says that the baker can't legally discriminate. But what is someone (gay or straight) wants some artwork on the cake that the baker considers distasteful, such as being pornographic?
A similar situation could happen in the case of a wedding photographer. Could the photographer legally balk at shooting a nudist wedding, be it gay or straight?
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Touch up topic title - get the "?" outside of the """".

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 25 of 928 (728697)
06-01-2014 10:34 PM


Hasn't gay marriage been (over?)covered elsewhere?
I think it would be nice to keep the gay marriage issue out of this topic.
Moose
"To Minnemooseus or Adminnemooseus, that is the question"

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2014 1:55 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 358 of 928 (754986)
04-02-2015 9:32 PM


NPR - Southern Baptist Minister: Religious Liberty Law Permits Denial Of Some Service
Southern Baptist Minister: Religious Liberty Law Permits Denial Of Some Services : NPR
Available there as both audio (7min17sec) and text transcript.
Oddly, the minister repeatedly presented it as a freedom of speech issue, rather than a freedom of religion issue.
One thing from host Steve Inskeep stood out to me as being illuminating:
quote:
INSKEEP: I've got one other question, and it involves a story from the time of desegregation of the United States - racial desegregation. And I don't mean to suggest here that these two situations are exactly the same, but they were two situations of great social change. And it involves the great sportscaster Red Barber, who was broadcasting on the radio at the time and was quite upset at first at the desegregation of baseball, Jackie Robinson coming to play in the major leagues. He said once that he thought about resigning, but then realized that his job was simply to report what was happening on the field. I wonder if there are people who are uncomfortable as a matter of conscience with gay marriage who might, with reason, take that position - that their job is simply to sell flowers, that their job is to take photographs, that their job is not to judge either way, that none of us are put on Earth to judge, actually, that their job is not to judge the people in front of them necessarily.
Also, the first comment:
quote:
Standing in my bakery listening to the articulate but hopelessly ignorant preacher say that my decoration on a cake is an exercise of free speech made me laugh out loud. I write, draw or design what my customer desires. It is NOT a reflection of my beliefs or an expression of personal ideology. ETC
Moose

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by herebedragons, posted 04-02-2015 10:23 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 769 of 928 (758375)
05-24-2015 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 762 by Faith
05-24-2015 7:12 AM


Go get it somewhere else
Go get your wedding cake somewhere else, nobody is stopping you, we'll find you a source, nobody is abusing you, sit down and have a coffee and doughnut, then go get your wedding cake somewhere else.
I strongly suspect that in some areas there is not a "somewhere else" alternative.
And if there is indeed a "somewhere else", probably substantial numbers of straight customers are probably also going to choose to go "somewhere else".
I don't think it will be good for your business, to develop a reputation that you treat some people unfairly.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 762 by Faith, posted 05-24-2015 7:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 770 by Faith, posted 05-24-2015 5:58 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
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