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Author
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Topic: Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 120 of 928 (728951)
06-04-2014 5:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by PaulK
06-04-2014 2:06 AM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
It is entirely sensible to point out that there is no neat distinction between "having a gay wedding" and "being gay". I think it is worth mentioning that a heterosexual couple can have quite a gay wedding while a gay couple can have a very somber wedding. Just sayin'. 
That's why the segregationists weren't allowed to appeal to their belief that segregation was God's law when they wanted to discriminate against Blacks. Exactly.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by PaulK, posted 06-04-2014 2:06 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 121 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 5:12 PM | | Taq has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 126 of 928 (728967)
06-04-2014 6:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
06-04-2014 5:12 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Except that segregation wasn't God's law That's not what the segregationist said.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 121 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 5:12 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 127 of 928 (728968)
06-04-2014 6:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 125 by Faith
06-04-2014 6:30 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
it is not loving your neighbor to approve of sin that is going to take them to an eternity of suffering, loving your neighbor means calling sin sin. You may have a point if the baker required every single one of his clients to fill out a lengthy questionairre that delved into what sins the client may or may not have committed, and then doled out cakes according to which clients had not committed sins.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 125 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 6:30 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 129 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 6:45 PM | | Taq has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 128 of 928 (728969)
06-04-2014 6:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
06-04-2014 6:10 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
OK, so nobody is going to allow Christians our Biblical stand against gay marriage. Where in the Bible does it say not to sell cakes to gay people?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 123 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 6:10 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 130 of 928 (728977)
06-04-2014 7:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
06-04-2014 6:45 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
To provide a service for a gay wedding is to do something that supports sin, treats it as not a sin. Since when? Where in the Bible does it say that if you bake someone a cake that you are supporting their sin?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 129 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 6:45 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 133 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 8:23 PM | | Taq has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 134 of 928 (728986)
06-04-2014 9:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 133 by Faith
06-04-2014 8:23 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Read the thread, Taq, it's all there. A WEDDING cake for a gay wedding would be supporting the sin of gay marriage. A wedding cake is no ordinary cake. Read the Bible. Where in the Bible does it say that baking a cake for a gay wedding is the same as supporting homosexuality?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 133 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 8:23 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 135 of 928 (728987)
06-04-2014 9:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
06-04-2014 8:21 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Righto, as I said, though you preferred to ignore the obvious context, so I'll repeat it complete with context: OK, so nobody is going to allow Christians our Biblical stand against gay marriage by refusing to serve a gay wedding. First, you would have to point to where the Bible forbids christians from selling a cake to a gay couple for their wedding. Second, you would need to show that religious freedoms includes the right to discriminate as part of a business. Edited by Taq, : No reason given. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 132 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 8:21 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 136 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 9:07 PM | | Taq has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 137 of 928 (728989)
06-04-2014 9:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 136 by Faith
06-04-2014 9:07 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Taq, I don't need to prove this to you, If you want to claim that it is a Biblical stand, yes you do. If you also want to claim that not being allowed to discriminate is a religious freedom, then you need to demonstrate that as well with references to court decisions.
the fact that Christians are standing against gay marriage in this way ought to be sufficient proof that we read the Bible as requiring this of us. It is not sufficient since I can point to hundreds of thousands of christians who stood up to desegregation and marriages of mixed races.
We are going to take this stand no matter what the law says so we don't have to prove anything about the state's definition of religious freedom in respect of business practices either. Just as long as we both agree that you are asking for rights not granted in the US Constitution.
When the state's authority contradicts God, we stand with God no matter what the consequences and no matter what you or anybody else thinks about it. You haven't shown that the state's authority is contradicting God. The only contradiction is in what you want to do.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 136 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 9:07 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 138 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 9:16 PM | | Taq has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 139 of 928 (728991)
06-04-2014 9:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
06-04-2014 9:16 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
It's already been argued quite clearly, It is quite clear that what you consider Biblical is really the religion of Faith.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 138 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 9:16 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 140 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 9:30 PM | | Taq has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 142 of 928 (728996)
06-04-2014 10:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 140 by Faith
06-04-2014 9:30 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Well, five Christian businesses that have taken this stand apparently share my biblical view. What Biblical view?
And again, the test of your comparison with civil rights laws is that the objections all evaporate when they aren't clearly based on God's authority, Then show me the bible verse where it says that you are forbidden from baking wedding cakes for gay couples. If you are going to claim biblical authority, then show it. Also, show how civil rights allow you to discriminate as part of a business.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 140 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 9:30 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 143 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 10:34 PM | | Taq has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 144 of 928 (729000)
06-04-2014 11:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 143 by Faith
06-04-2014 10:34 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Still not seeing a verse that says, "thou shalt not bake a wedding cake for a gay couple". All I see are commands of how christians are to act, and none of it includes discriminating against homosexuals as part of your business.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 143 by Faith, posted 06-04-2014 10:34 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 146 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 12:13 AM | | Taq has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 161 of 928 (729042)
06-05-2014 11:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 146 by Faith
06-05-2014 12:13 AM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
As I said, I don't need to convince you. We'll obey God and take the consequences. End of subject. As part of society, yes you do need to convince me. If you are demanding certain rights then you need to justify them.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 146 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 12:13 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 169 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 2:43 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 162 of 928 (729043)
06-05-2014 11:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 157 by Faith
06-05-2014 8:53 AM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Because it is God's will as revealed in the Bible that determines our stand on gay marriage. Pretty obvious. Where is it revealed that God's will is for you to discriminate against homosexuals as part of your business?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 157 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:53 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 163 of 928 (729044)
06-05-2014 11:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
06-05-2014 8:39 AM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
It doesn't matter what others say about God's will supporting their terrorist actions. You are gtalking to me and I am saying nothing of the kind. What stops us from saying that you are just as wrong as the terrorists are?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 155 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:39 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 170 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 2:45 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10084 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 187 of 928 (729082)
06-05-2014 4:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 173 by Faith
06-05-2014 3:12 PM
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Re: Denial of service and not the person?
I'll say it again: Segregation is not supported by the Bible . . . Are you really blind to the irony of that statement? You pass judgement on everyone else's interpretation of the Bible, but when it comes to your interpretation no one is allowed to judge.
But the Bible is clear that gay marriage is a violation of God's law and therefore laws that forbid us from refusing to honor gay marriage will not change our minds and we'll have to take the punishment. Where does it say that in the Bible? Where does it say that baking a cake for a gay couple's wedding as part of a non-discriminating business means that you are honoring their gay marriage?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 173 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 3:12 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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