Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

My beliefs are solidly historical traditional mainline Bible-based Christian beliefs. They couldn't be more ordinary and traditional.Everything you have said about me in that post is a lie.But I could not care less what you think about anything I believe.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This issue is not about gay marriage, it's not about cakes.The real issue is whether, in a widely diverse multi-cultural society, particular minutiae of one particular religious view should have precedence over the rest of society. Or at the very least over the laws of the society.

The issue for me is whether or not Christians are going to be forced by law to recognize gay marriage which we consider to be a violation of God's law. There is no other issue here. The laws that are coming against us have been invented in the last decade or so, they were never a part of any sane society before that and are a clear sign that this society is no longer sane. Your appeal to "diversity" is itself insane. Sin is not a category of human diversity, we're all sinners. In any case what you think is irrelevant. Make your laws to persecute us and we'll take the persecution because we have no choice. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Bullshit.Bullshit upon bullshit.Do you really and actually know the entirety of God's Mind? Or are you merely expressing what you personally believe about it?You are a fallible human. Do you disagree with that assessment?Admittedly fallible human, you claim to know exactly what God is thinking? Yeah, right! Bullshit! Oh, you don't think that your position is bullshit? OK, defend your position objectively!!!! Prove it! No, of course you cannot. Nor could any human possibly do so!Everything I said about you was the absolute truth! Point out to me exactly what you think was a lie! Exactly and precisely!And of course, you, living within your lie, would not care less about the truth. Nothing new there. So you accept the false ideas of others. So what? They also claimed that their beliefs were based on the Bible, just as you have made the same claim? So what? That just means that they were just as misguided and lost as you!

Everything you said in that post about my beliefs and attitudes was a lie. I have zero interest in trying to prove anything to you or anybody else on this thread. It's not about evidence.Your fascistic view of society is going to prevail and we're going to be the victims of it because we will oppose some of its laws. That's the whole story here, there is nothing more.
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My beliefs are standard historical traditional Bible-based beliefs, absolutely nothing out of the ordinary, simply standard Protestant Christianity which I share with the vast majority of Protestant groups. There is no question about the mind of God when it comes to homosexuality and gay marriage but we don't have to prove that to you since you've shown yourself incapable of understanding it.

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That race is a legitimate protected class, homosexuality is not.

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So, freedom of religion is NOT the issue, You just want the right to discriminate against homosexuals.Do you have valid secular reasons why a minority frequently discriminated against and even persecuted should not be considered a protected class ?

Then you are yet again wrong! Our society is indeed diverse. To be able to function within our society, we need to be able to deal with diversity. Now, you are stuck there in your own habitat (yes, I do realize that you have medical conditions that limit your mobility and your ability to go out and interact with others), so your own personal interaction with society's diversity is very limited. It would certainly seem that your physical isolation and selectivity in reacting with others outside your own personal habitat would shield you unnecessarily from the broad diversity of our society. However, most individuals in this society are not as isolated as you are. Most individuals in this society do indeed encounter other individuals of backgrounds that are entirely different from their own. Most individuals in this society do have to deal with others who are very different and diverse from themselves. That may not be part of your own extremely limited reality, but it is very much a part of everybody else's reality.Again, gay marriage is not the issue here. The issue here is whether one's own personal religious beliefs, however false they may be, are to be allowed to override society's invested interest in ensuring equal rights for all its members.

The idea that I am not aware of gthe diversity of this nation is nuts. Homosexuality is not a legitimate class of humanity. And how do you know hoe much contact I may or may not have had with homosexuals or anbody else in this rapidly degenerating nation? I've only been stuck at home for the last few years. What an absaolut3ely idiotic thing to say. Who do you think you are?And again, the issue IS gay marriage because it's the issue that is being forced on Christian businesses requiring them to refuse service and get sued. There is no other issue that concerns me on this thread.Obviously you think you have the right to tell me what to think, to make up everything yourself such as the topic of the thread, what a Christian is, what I should believe, everything.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

That is in itself a lie! Point out very specifically what you think is a lie! Be very specific!!!Do you really believe that you are yourself without fault? That you are yourself perfect and completely lacking any kind of human fallibility? if you truly believe that then you are most certainly completely and absolutely deluded! Prove to us that you are personally completely perfect and that everything you utter is the complete and utter truth!if you cannot do that, then your accusations are completely and utter false.Can you be wrong? Com'on, be honest for once in our life! Can you be wrong?You claim to know intimately what your god is thinking. Can you be wrong? As much as it is against character, do please be honest.

Since I never claimed to be perfect I have no interest in trying to prove anything concerning such an idiotic idea.

Let's do the twist now. You're one of the best at it here.

People are as they are. That is most certainly outside my own experience, but people are as they are. Of course I have no idea how much contact you may or may not have had with homosexuals. Could you please enlighten us about your contacts? Certainly, because of your completely legitimate limitations with the real world, you may very well have not had any contact with homosexuals, or else you may have had daily contacts with homosexuals. We have no way of knowing that, but rather you do. Do please inform us of the details of your daily contacts with homosexual individuals. And, please, do not spare us any details whatsoever. So what the frak is your point? I know that you are physically not very mobile. I am making allowances for your personal mobility issues. Have you physically been to the Grand Canyon to personally examine exactly what the layers look like? Of course not, that would physically be impossible for you, so I don't demand that of you while others who didn't know about your physical limitations would for very good reason.The point still remains that your contacts are limited. So what have been your contacts with homosexuals? You have tried to divert our attention away from the question, just the totally dishonest Christian maneuver we would expect. Gee, why is it that Christians keep employing totally dishonest and lying tactics?

You claim to have perfect knowledge of what God wants.You need to provide us with perfect proof of that perfect knowledge.Can you? Of course you cannot, because you are a very imperfect human.So why do you pretend to have such perfect knowledge?Please come clean!

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Let's do the twist now. You're one of the best at it here.

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Of course not. If homosexuals are not a protected class you have the right to discriminate against them. You want the law to say that homosexuals are not a protected class.If it were really a religious freedom issue you would need a legal reason based on religious freedom that would allow the courts to favour your view while disallowing the segregationist position, which is just as religious as yours. But you don't even try to offer one.You don't even offer a valid secular reason why homosexuals should not be considered a protected class which makes your position even less tenable.

Wow... Just Wow.
So you think Homosexuals are less than human?
At last we're getting to the honest reasons for your desire to discriminate.
Enough with the "God's Law" Bullshit, NOw that we're down to th nub of it you just consider Gays as Sub-human.