Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

In other words not fit to be elected to any government position where you pledge to uphold the constitution and the laws of the land ...This is where fanatics go, Faith.Enjoy

Upside-down flag T-shirt creates PacSun backlashNow personally I think wearing a countries flag as part of your apparel -- especially when you get to underwear and shorts -- or when you make objects to sit on -- chairs, etc -- is more disrespectful to that flag than wearing it upside down.In college one classmate used a flag as a bedspread, and several in the dorm thought that was disrespectful, and this was long before jingoists started wearing it.Second I support the rights of anyone to wear this t-shirt as their free speech, especially if other wear per above is permitted without dispute.Third I note that an international sign of distress at sea is to raise a flag upside down.But the issue here is :: should people be allowed to prevent a store from offering a product made by someone else?EnjoyEdited by RAZD, : url

Where is a store being prevented from offering a product?

It isn't, but it seems that *the public* are trying to get them to remove the product from their offerings ... if you read the comments ...... should they be allowed to do this?Enjoy

Free Speech works both ways.As long as it's not government ordering the take down, public pressure is the American way.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

To make a declaration of their opinion?To request a company change its behavior?I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do all of that.

Yes and I'd be happy to have second thoughts. I don't like the idea of Christendom going down. This is just now getting started, it's going to take some time to develop, how much I don't know, but if the Supreme Court rules against opponents of gay marriage next month it could take off fast. But in general, I'd guess a few years. I'm bringing all this up BEFORE it gets going. You'll know when it does of course.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I seriously doubt that the Supreme Court will mandate that anyone marry someone of the same sex so I see no way that any ruling from the Supreme Court could be an issue to any honest Christian.

I guess you won't notice an escalation of Bible inerrantists being criminalized for refusing to cater to gay weddings or preaching what the Bible says about marriage and about homosexuality because in your mind it can't exist.

No one would be criminalized for preaching what they think the Bible or Koran or any other similar collection says. That is just nonsense. In the US the right to preach bigotry is protected.There is nothing in the Bible that says Christians shouldn't bake cakes for a same sex wedding and if some group tries to claim they have some special right to not bake cakes for a same sex marriage and that breaks a law then of course they would be behaving as criminals.I will re-post what it says in 2 Kings 5 to help you.I think a relevant passage that shows how the God character in the Bible would view the issue of baking a cake for a same sex marriage can be found in 2 Kings 5:

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15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

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16 But he said, As the Lord liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And he urged him to take it; but he refused.

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17 And Naaman said, Shall there not then, I pray thee, be given to thy servant two mules' burden of earth? for thy servant will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the Lord.

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18 In this thing the Lord pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon thy servant in this thing.

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19 And he said unto him, Go in peace. So he departed from him a little way.

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Here, Naaman says that he will only worship the Israeli deity but since he lives and is the servant of a man who worships a different deity asks if it would be acceptable for Naaman to accompany his master, to aid his master and to even bow down in the temple of the other deity and the response is "Sure, go in peace".It seems that God thinks courtesy, faithfulness to fellow humans and good manners are more important than refusing service to others even when that service is contrary to God's word.

As in "do unto others?"What a novel idea!(We could use a whole lot more down-to-earth kindness all around.)

If that happens, it will be entirely due to arrogant inerrantists having public trantrums.

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Yes and I'd be happy to have second thoughts. I don't like the idea of Christendom going down.

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Then I believe that you are on the wrong side. But since you seem to hate actual Christians I doubt that.

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This is just now getting started, it's going to take some time to develop, how much I don't know, but if the Supreme Court rules against opponents of gay marriage next month it could take off fast.

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It's true that some of the opponents of gay marriage have threatened all sorts of mayhem, but they are full of bluster and lies. Orson Scott Card has already walked back on his threats of murder. But maybe some really believe that they can start and win a second civil war and impose their tyranny. If THAT happens you can expect to see Christians persecuted.Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

I've been hearing that all my life, not about gay marriage specifically but about Christians being persecuted. Yet the only persecution of Christians that you can point to is in places that are dominated by other religions, places where the persecution has always existed (and where the Christians aren't "True Christians" by your own definition anyway).Gay marriage is just the flavour of the month for you alarmists. It used to be Christians being persecuted for creationist beliefs. Before that it was something else. After gay marriage has been around for generations with no persecution of Christians, you'll find something else to complain about.

At first I thought maybe you're right about that but then Irealized things really have changed in the last few years, about a decade or so perhaps, and escalated more now with gay marriage having actually been the cause of legal action against Christian businesses. plus it now being on the Supreme Court agenda. The first I ever heard of legal action against Christians was the accusations of "hate speech" here and there for preaching the Bible, especially if the subject was homosexuality, a decade ago or so. Here's a GOOGLE PAGE on that.As for Christians talking about coming persecution, as I recall that was mostly about the End Times teachings that had everyone wondering about the timing of the Great Tribulation and whether the Church would go through it or not. There was even a Rumanian pastor who WAS persecuted, under Ceaucescu ---he was brought before the authorities and beaten, and had his laboriously collected library confiscated, all while another Rumanian pastor, Richard Wurmbrand, was in prison for his faith --- who told us his joke about how across the world nobody is wondering when the Tribulation is going to occur, but when the American Church is going to go through it. But I don't recall anything in the direction of a real sense of persecution being about to happen here until gay marriage started developing as a legal issue in a pretty short period of time. It's true that so far, even with the recent escalation to legal action here and there, so far all we have is "soft persecution" compared to the rest of the world. But if you're speaking mostly of Islam, which has recently been increasing its persecutions of Christians, already bad enough, while it dominates in many places now, in most of those places Christianity was there first by some six or seven centuries. Where Hinduism is the persecutor it's true they are older than Christianity in India, but the apostle Thomas is credited with founding the Indian Church so you can't pretend it's a new upstart religion on that continent. Yes all kinds of Christians are getting persecuted across the rest of the world. But in Mexico and other Catholic countries it's the Catholics persecuting the Protestants. I think if you'd really track the events of recent history as I've laid them out above, you'd see a definite escalation.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.