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Author | Topic: The Marketing Of Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So the marketing works.
Much of my Christianity has been shaped by the 30 year collection of inter-office memos penned by Paul and perhaps others.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
As you said, your Christianity. You might as well have said, "Much of my shopping habits has been shaped by TV commercials."
The question remains: What is the product? Phat writes:
It doesn't matter whether it works or not as long as you keep buying it.
Does it really cure warts?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The snake oil doesn't seem to be working on the Christians you mentioned. So how is it "effective"?
As I have said before, there have been many Christians at this forum who knew lots of scripture yet who did not seem to have love. God is love. I pray that we all receive a bigger dose of this. Hate is itself a cancer. The Holy Spirit is an effective antidote.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Because He's advertised as, "the creator of all that is." Why is it that people think God causes tragedies? When General Motors brags about their warranty, they don't list the dozens of things that it doesn't cover. God's commercials don't list the negatives either.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I didn't say that the warranty is hidden. I said that it isn't advertised by the marketers. They sell the "joy" that you get from Christianity, the freedom from earthly worries, etc. They don't tend to sell the consequences of your actions. The worst of them sell a get-out-of-hell-free card that guarantees God's forgiveness for whatever you do. That's hardly an incentive for responsible behaviour.
Deuteronomy 30:1-20 offers up the full warrenty. Phat writes:
Tell that to Pharaoh's army at the bottom of the Red Sea.
Logically I dont see God micromanaging the weather based upon the sins of America...or any other nation, for that matter.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
None. Eternity is over-rated.
Ringos infamous spare change routine comes to mind. What eternal good does it do simply to hand a guy a buck every time you see him? Phat writes:
I've had pastors who said that it does no good to feed the body unless you feed the soul too. The problem with that philosophy is that when the body is hungry, the soul most likely isn't listening. It does little good to feed a guy if that's all you do for him. Of course the other side to it is that feeding his body is good for your soul.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
The question is: What is the baptism for? Is it an end in itself? Or is it intended to help you make better sandwiches?
...note also that John claims that Jesus will ...baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Not just simply give you a sandwich and tell you to have a nice day... Phat writes:
I have never suggested that a Christian shouldn't do "more". What exactly do you think IS "more"?
The original question was whether a Christian should do more than simply feed people. Phat writes:
That sounds like step one in the get-out-of-hell-free marketing strategy.
I would argue that this scripture supports the idea that people don't simply need bread.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So I have to ask you for the umpteenth time: Why is it that the people who claim to be "found" often don't have the first clue about anything?
Some say that there are lost people and "found" people and that the saved ones have come to a knowledge of Gods truth that the lost people had nary a clue about. If you believe that, the baptism gives you knowledge. Phat writes:
That's what I'm saying. You can be baptized till the cows come home but if you don't do something useful, like making sandwiches for the hungry, what's the point?
A man could have all the knowledge of the universe, but if he never applied it towards any profitable end, it would be useless. Phat writes:
Again, what good is more conscience, more desire to help, more insight, more empathy unless you use it?
Perhaps "more" is more of a conscience...more of a desire to help others...more insight into how others think and feel...empathy, perhaps.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes:
That's a heck of a big room already. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to think that everybody who "cared enough" had to be jammed into one room?
But after His resurrection there were only 120 followers in the upper room ready to follow Him in His next move. Where were the thousands who were fed and healed ?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Indeed. As used by fundamentalists, God's "needs" are a euphemism for what He demands of us, or else. It's what we need to do to avoid eternal torment.
Jaywill wasn't using the word "needs" for God as we would use it for people....
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I was responding to jaywill, who said in Message 126:
That was just the leadership team.quote:He was the one who implied that it was "everybody", not me.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Wanting His children to grow up does not imply that He doesn't care about them.
Some say that God Himself could care less about us. Once he gave us wisdom and life, he expected us to grow up and leave the nest. Phat writes:
That's a misuse of the analogy.
Others believe that the whole world is His nest.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
The "leaving the nest analogy" is about growing up. Even if the whole world is "His nest", you can't deny that God wants us to grow up, can you? ringo writes:
How so? That's a misuse of the analogy. And remember that when the Bible was written, extended families were the norm. Grown-up children didn't "leave the nest" in the sense that they moved out of their father's house - but they were expected to grow up, marry and bring their spouses into the nest.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes:
It's more geodesic than circular; it's a web. On a circle, you keep passing the same point over and over again - but you can navigate the logic on a web by coming at a point from different directions on different paths.
Can you with reason prove that you can reason your way to truth ?I don't think you can do so without circular reasoning.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes:
You're the one who called it a circle.
It is not a geometry problem. jaywill writes:
The obvious reason is that theologians come to so many different conclusions. If Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Raelians, etc. were using that procedure, then they would all be inter-connected. Yet theologians seem to concentrate on how disconnected their conclusions are from the "wrong" conclusions. I see no obvious reason why a clever theologian could not utilize the very same procedure to sidestep logical contradictions related to theology. ie. "Well, its a geodesic situation here, you know ?" But as jar points out, unless there's some evidence to connect your conclusions to reality, it's just "turtles all the way down" - i.e. it's just unsupported logic; it's reasoning (whether sound or not) based on untested premises. A web of logic would be no better than a circle, unless it was supported at some of its points by evidence.
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