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Author | Topic: Did the Flood really happen? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: This thread is for the scientific discussion of whether Noah’s Flood occurred as described in the Bible. If you cannot make a scientific case you may as well leave the thread. (And if you can, you really don’t need Tangle to explain his position)
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5
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quote: Even if it is true (and granites are known elsewhere), that is not valid argument. That there is more on Earth than elsewhere does not mean that there is enough on Earth. So it seems that you are the one who is confused. And I note that you offer no evidence at all for your supposed alternative mechanism, so I guess that is another fantasy.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: None of the others ARE literally true.
quote: Well, nobody is insisting on the time frame of written history, but obviously the point of insisting that Noah must have lived at a time when there were humans and animals and trees is because the story demands it.
quote: Yes, it’s just a pretext for some bizarre fantasy you’ve made up. That isn’t a valid reason.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Science Direct On the Moon for one.
On Moon, 4.4—3.9 Ga granite clasts display dry mineral assemblages. They correspond to at least 8 discrete intrusive events. Large K/Ca enrichment and low REE abundances in granite relative to KREEP are consistent with silicate liquid immiscibility, a process observed in melt inclusions within olivine of lunar basalts and in lunar meteorites. Steep-sided domes identified by remote sensing can represent intrusive or extrusive felsic formations. quote: I doubt it.
quote: I thought you were arguing that water was released by the formation of granite. That’s not very consistent with it as a reservoir.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5
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quote: That sounds like a topic. Why don’t you start one explaining why people should be ashamed of preferring science to your opinions.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
So much for:
Tell me which planet/satellite in the solar system has granite on it. I will surrender to you if you can find one. And so much for, this, too.
granite is one of the largest water reservoir on the earth. And you don’t know how much granite there might be on Venus. Interestingly, on Earth The A-type granites are considered to dominantly form along tectonic rifts or within stable continent interiors
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
Interesting coming from someone who has great difficulty in basic research.
Again, if you really think that your methods are so much better start a topic. Or I will. But you probably won’t like it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
What I am talking about is Message 2038
I know that process. What I am trying to do is to make one feel shame or inferior in operating that process. Because, believe me nobody is feeling inferior to you. Nor should they.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: I absolutely shouldn’t. You say:
If a person can not think in logic, which is in contrast to "thinking free", his argument can not go far, even in faith and belief And you obviously can’t. Message 412 Which I guess is the reason you try to make people feel inferior - it’s the only way you can win. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
Since you claim to be so good at reasoning it’s about time you laid it out. How do you get from the long life span attributed to Noah to Noah being a pre-human - and what do you think that Noah actually was?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: We shouldn’t have to ask.
quote: What does this have to do with your claim that Noah was not human?Moreover, why would the Bible use any timeframe other than that experienced on Earth? Also, what events would do this and what evidence do you have that they occurred? quote: Then you had better provide good answers to the above questions. And show your reasoning. Which I asked you to do - and which you are not doing.
quote: It is your job to provide the evidence and reasoning to support your claims. If you do not the natural conclusion is that you are making things up. As indeed you have already done on other issues.
quote: It certainly isn’t any harder - in fact it seems easier. It was long ago now, but I actually took an undergraduate course in Special Relativity, so I have some know,edge of the subject.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5
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quote: You have asserted that Noah was not a normal human and sufficiently different that his remains would not be identifiable as human. And that he lived at a time when - by all the evidence we have - there were no humans at all. Your vagueness doesn’t not help you, in fact it just makes you look evasive.
quote: It is not the case that every word in the Bible is scientifically true and we know that for a fact (e.g. Genesis 30:31-42 especially verses 38, 39, 41 and 42). Moreover, we do not simply need stories by which the events might happen. We need evidence that they did happen.
quote: Indeed, I suggested earlier that months and years might have gotten confused as the stories were passed down. However, the length of the year is controlled by orbital dynamics and cannot greatly change unless the Earth’s orbit changed. And I note again that you come up short on evidence, reasoning and even in explaining your ideas. That only makes it seem that you lack any confidence in your ideas - if you even have any concrete ideas.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Then in what way was Noah different and why does it matter.?Continuing to evade the matter does not help you. quote: No.
quote: I am not sure what this is in reference to. The nearest thing is your idea that the year might be a different length.
quote: And yet your comments on Noah’s age relate to biology. And you don’t seem much better at physics, yet you’ve recently made suggestions there.
quote: It is a clear scientific error. But OK explain to me the reason why I should lie about it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: In principle it might be possible without obvious changes. The ageing process is not well understood and varies between species.
quote: I do not agree that this is a plausible possibility. If you wish to argue otherwise you need a concrete proposal, supported by evidence.
quote: 1. Because the story is an obvious myth and because the scientific evidence is strongly against any literal reading of the story. The age attributed to Noah is more 2. I would consider the fact that the Earth’s orbit would have to drastically change, and that would have effects that should be noticeable. Not to mention that we would need some mechanism for it. It is not something that can be considered at all likely in the timescale available.
quote: That’s not my problem. There is no good reason to consider the supposed longevity fact. Maybe as I suggested there was confusion in the transmission of the stories and months became years. Maybe it’s just a common feature of the myths and legends of that region and time. These are more likely explanations.
quote: Then you should spend more time answering questions instead of ignoring them.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5
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quote: Oh but it is. The quality of the post has nothing g to do with your personal dislike of the views expressed.
quote: The calculations are reasonably simple, and yes the Earth would have to be closer to the Sun. But it’s your idea, it’s up to you to support it.
quote: If you want to talk about science we have to establish what the evidence actually is. We have a story, written down long after it supposedly happened. In fact we have a composite of two versions of the story. Which are versions of an apparently older story common in the region. The story involves various extreme implausibilities, none of which can be adequately supported with scientific evidence. Myth:
a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon Merriam-Webster We may note the explanation of the rainbow, for instance. So I think on a scientific basis we can be very comfortable with calling it a myth. If you wish to disagree it is for you to produce the evidence. Moreover if we are trying to be scientific we cannot say that the story is definite fact and start inventing ways it could have happened without regard to the evidence. That is apologetics, not science.
quote: I certainly do not have to invent wild interpretations without evidence. I can stick to a plain reading of the text and the fact that the evidence is greatly against that. If you wish to argue for some other reading then it is for you to produce the evidence - including evidence that your ideas even are a viable reading. And you have failed even in that.
quote: And I have not done that. I gave reasons why it is not true, You asked me to help support YOUR ideas and THAT is not my problem.
quote: You certainly aren’t doing that at all. You’re still trying to get me to help you support your ideas. Which is your job. Edited by PaulK, : Restored lost text, corrected tags
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