On this day, let us all be proud of America

Whatever, Judge Jones. No worry. God, the just judge, will get me, for sure, if I'm lying. Him I fear.You're a dreamer who plays judge like you play Dr.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Message 177

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soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

Dr. Jones,You forgot this anti-miscegenation classic from Buzz: Sorry Buzz, you lost all your cool points with me on this one.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : Correct spelling

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

I knew I could rely on you to miss the point, Buz old boy.

quote:

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Subbie, do you really expect folks to be proud to have a new black president even if they didn't agree with anything he stands for?

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Yes, for the reasons stated in the OP. Do I expect you to? Of course not. Blinkered, broken down horses who are used to running in circles who's normal view is a bunch of horses' asses are seldom capable of seeing anything other than what they focus on.President Obama is proof that this nation has made enormous strides in the direction of racial equality, regardless of what positions he takes. This is particularly true, given all the racist horseshit that various horses' asses vomited up, carefully calculated to appeal to other horses' asses. The majority of the voting public looked past all of that and elected him anyway.

quote:

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Would you be doing this thread if that it was Allan Keys or Clarence Thomas?

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Yes. I don't expect you to believe that because apparently the concept of there being both good and bad in something is beyond your comprehension. Your loss.As far as your subtitle (Has Race Become A Qualification?) goes, I'm sure there are some people who voted for President Obama because of his race. But I'm considerably more certain that more people voted against him because of his race. If you don't think so, you're every bit as big a horse's ass as I think you are.

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For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

I'm sorry, what I said is not a strawman. You claimed to have voted for a black presidential candidate well before any of us, and touted Alan Keyes as your example.What I showed, is that while you may certainly have voted for Alan Keyes in 1996, he was never a presidential candidate. He was a candidate for the nomination of the GOP to become president. The GOP never nominated him to be thei presidential candidate. He never ran as an independent either. So your claim of voting for a black presidential candidate before anyone else is false, because Barack Obama was the first black presidential candidate.And if it has nothing to do with race, why do you bring up this up?

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Interesting point. What do you consider a landslide?

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The following:1994 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia

....And I'm beginning to question your intelligence and fair mindedness, DA.My knowledge of what is scientific reality concerning the races and what is observed and whether I practice racism is apples and oranges. I assumed sensible and intelligent folks could figure that out.Whether one is a creationist or evolutionist the fact is that the races have been separated/segregated since history has been recorded for one reason or another and that is the natural phenomenon of reality.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Yeah, unlike the country who voted for Bush in the last couple of elections, whose majority did accept the TOE.Do you even try to make sense any more?

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Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

Unfortunately for you, I don't think the situation in 2010 will be similar to 1994.For starters, Clinton was elected with a plurality of the vote (true, he had a greater EV count than Obama, but his popular vote was 43%, compared to Obama's 53%. Much easier to swing the country against Clinton when he did not get a majority of the popular vote.But aside from that, let's look at the Senate election specifically. The GOP won 8 seats, right? 6 of those seats were open, with no incumbents running. Incumbents are generally very hard to beat. As of now, the GOP has 4 open seats (Kansas, Missouri, Florida, and Ohio). The democrats have no open seats to defend. Another consideration is the number of seats to defend. In 1994, the dems had to defend 22 seats to the GOP's 13. Much easier to defend, and gain, when you have fewer seats to defend than the opposing party. In 2010, the dems will have to defend 17, the GOP 19 (assuming nothing changes in the interim and Salazar and Clinton are confirmed). So it's pretty even across the board. In order to take back the senate, the GOP would have to win 28 elections (hold all 19 of their seats, plus the 9 to bring them to 50). And unlike the 1994 election, the GOP has to defend more seats than the dems do.The current dem hold on the senate is stronger than it was after 1992, so you're going to need a more phenomenal performance than in 1994.The House elections are a touch trickier, but the current dem control is equivalent to what it was leading into 1994. Here's the thing, though. In 1994, the republicans took control over a 40 year majority rule by the dems in the House. Return to dem control occurred a mere 12 years later, and by 2010, will have been in dem hands for 4 years. The GOP also had this thing called the Contract with America that spelled out what their plans were for the country, which may have been partly responsible for their commanding victory. Perhaps more responsible was the national cohesion--the GOP ran a national election instead of the typical district by district case. Last time that happened was in 1918. Further, the House landslide was predicated partly by perceptions of democratic corruption, which, funnily enough, is what helped do the GOP in in 2006. Sure, the dems still have corrupt members (I know you're going to call out Rangel), but the question is overall perception of corruption. And right now, I think its the GOP who has that taint (a la Stevens).And with the economic malaise still being the fault of the republican leadership, unless the GOP can convince us that they have policies that will work better than the dem policies, I don't see how there will be a landslide, never mind a loss of majority status in either chamber.

Fair mindedness? How is bigotry towards other races being fair minded? If you are pro antimiscegnation (believe it is wrong for races to intermarry/interbreed) than it usually is (at least it has been the case throughout history) because you believe your race to better than another race. Can you provide an intelligent scientific reason why it is wrong for different "races" to intermarry? And no the case that this is they way it has always been done no longer applies. Antimiscegination laws were abolished in the United States since the 1960's.The advocation of antimiscegination has occured in pre-civil rights United States, apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany among a few countries if that puts it into perspective. Antimiscegination is one of the leading tenants of the KKK and other white supremecy skinhead groups. Is that who you really want to associate yourself with? Scientific reality of what? That someone has more or less melanin in their skin than you is something we should discriminate over? The seperation of races has only existed because humanity themselves have prevented them from intermingling in the past based on religion and cultural prejudices. This is not a "natural phenomena" in that you have a choice to decide whether you are going to be a a racist bigot or not.I am blunt on this because I think it discpicable and disgusting that people still think in this manner. And I could care less what your opinion of me is. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

The theme of our new president's campaign and inauguration was the remaking of America.Perhaps America should be reminded that that was the theme of the Bolshevik Revolution for Europe and the theme of Hitler for Germany, which combined effected well over a hundred million violent deaths and devastation to the continent by their own governments. I might add that Fidel Castro remade Cuba to enslave, impoverish and oppress the bourgeois/middle class common folk ever since.I am not euphoric because if the remaking of America is relative to the ideals of this new president's mentors and close associates over his lifetime, what is there to be euphoric for? Why should I join the euphoria of black militant/supremest Nation Of Islam, the Communist Party, terrorist/mentor Bill Ayers, radical cleric Jeremiah Wright and Islamic terrorists who, unlike the millions of dupes who drank the nicely dyed palatable appearing Obama cool aid, understand what President Obama means relative to his ultimate goal of remaking America. The aforementioned examples are not the types who go along to get along. No, not by a long shot. They fully understand that their dreams, goals and agenda for America may now come to fruition. Edited by Buzsaw, : Add title

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

How hard would it have been to get a fake birth certificate in Hawaii in 1961 that would pass as authentic today and falsely convince people that he was born there?

A dispassionate look at the 2010 landscape will show you that republicans are likely to gain a handful of house seats, mostly the ones they lost this year due to presidential coattails.But the democrats will pick up 1-3 senate seats as the Republicans again have the misfortune of defending more seats than the dems. Even the seats the dems are defending are pretty safe seats for the most part.You could make an argument for 2012, especially if you are banking on Obama screwing up. The dems are in a much more precarious position in the senate then and unless the reps are stupid enough to run a canidate like McCain, they will have a presidential canidate with coattails to pick back up some of their more traditional house seats.Enjoy your 4 year exile. See you on the pavement in 2012.

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If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

hehe - you're classic gold Buz. How many scary bad things can you associate with Obama in one post. Communism and Nazism is a good one - I love it. You covered the 20th and 21st Centuries quite nicely, I would have awarded bonus points for 19th Century demagoguery such as the 'Yellow Peril'.I will of course point out that Hitler used the same tactics that Buz is now using - appealing to fear and guilt by association. Normally I don't respond to people like Hitler who, in case you didn't know was instrumental in slaughtering millions. Does Buz want us to slaughter millions? He's certainly using the same kind of demagoguery as Hitler. And he's using the old 'if you repeat it often enough they'll believe you routine'. Which is what Hitler used, and Stalin. And they slaughtered millions. Maybe Buz is trying to slaughter millions too. Buz's opinions on mixed race marriage are closer to Hitler's than they are to Martin Luther King - and Hitler slaughtered millions. And communists, they appealed to fear too - and they loved guilt by association. Hitler. You want to know who loves to manipulate the fears and prejudices of red-blooded America? Terrorists. Come on people, its in the name. Islamic Nationalistic Jihadist Terroristic A-rabs. Fear them. Fear Buz. They want you to be afraid and hate. Like Hitler. And Stalin. And Pol Pot. And Castro. Who was a communist, but don't forget the Nazis. And the Chinese. Or the Jews.I think, just to be safe, we shouldn't listen to Buz because Hitler Hitler Hitler, Nazis, Communists, Islamists, fear, terror, terrorists. Nazis, bin Laden, Bosheviks, Turks, and Shiites!

I don't know - but we could say the same thing about any of the US Presidents. Maybe they weren't US Citizens over the age of 35. You'd have to be sure they were pretty good. What proof have we that McCain was born to John S. McCain, Jr. and Roberta McCain in Panama and that he didn't simply fake his birth certificate? After all how hard would it have been to get a fake birth certificate in 1936 in Panama that would pass as authentic today (enough to pass through the security checks that goes with the territory of becoming commander-in-chief of the US army)?