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Author Topic:   If it can be, how can the "Absence of Evidence" be "Evidence of Absence?".
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 135 of 309 (534884)
11-11-2009 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by kbertsche
11-11-2009 10:23 AM


Re: Well done
But fundamentally, they don't really explain why it behaves this way.
No, GR explains precisely why gravitation behaves the way it does. GR lies at a much deeper level than simple gravitation. Furthermore, GR fits into a even deeper framework of the nature of reality, when seen together with the other quantum fields. What Peg wrote in the context of gravity is complete, although oft-repeated, nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by kbertsche, posted 11-11-2009 10:23 AM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by kbertsche, posted 11-11-2009 11:53 PM cavediver has replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 136 of 309 (534886)
11-11-2009 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by kbertsche
11-11-2009 12:34 PM


Re: fine tuning is a fable
These are simply philosophical speculations of a scientist, perhaps because he wants to avoid the implications of fine-tuning.
Just about everyone in the field, including Paul and Stephen, are fully aware that a multiverse scenario is somehwere between a distinct possibility and an almost certainty: from the exceptionally generic string landscape, through chaotic/eternal inflation, bubble-nucleation, and even just plain old boring classic inflation (where the multiverse is simply the vast multiplicity of observable-universe-sized volumes of the hyper-sized universe.) Fine-tuning is a thing of the past. Barrow and Tipler's CAP is over twenty years old, and was a good read in the late eighties - now it's all a bit tired.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by kbertsche, posted 11-11-2009 12:34 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-11-2009 4:08 PM cavediver has replied
 Message 145 by kbertsche, posted 11-11-2009 11:58 PM cavediver has not replied
 Message 154 by Peg, posted 11-12-2009 10:33 PM cavediver has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 138 of 309 (534896)
11-11-2009 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Dawn Bertot
11-11-2009 4:08 PM


Re: fine tuning is a fable
Why dont you just say you dont have a real clue about any of what is actually out there.
EMA, when you get to the point of actually understanding 1% of what we are talking about, get back to me. 'Till then, stick to your talking snakes - it's more your level.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-11-2009 4:08 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-11-2009 4:48 PM cavediver has replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 158 of 309 (535132)
11-13-2009 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Dawn Bertot
11-11-2009 4:48 PM


Re: fine tuning is a fable
Im simply trying to demonstrate that you dont understand the issues you dealing with in other thread, but you pretend like you do.
Nice try I was an evangelical christian for over twenty years - I have been an evangelist, worship leader, amateur preacher, and apologist. I could quote you Josh McDowell verbatim on just about any issue. Gives me quite a good perspective on things...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-11-2009 4:48 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 159 of 309 (535133)
11-13-2009 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by kbertsche
11-11-2009 11:53 PM


Re: Well done
but I maintain that it is still only a description, not really a cause.
That is because you do not understand it
It seems to me that theists (including the pioneers of modern science, such as Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Boyle, etc) tend to take my position, while atheists tend to take your position.
Complete nonsense. For all my time as a professional physicist, I was an evangelical Christian. It has nothing to do with theism/atheism. It has to do with knowing what you are talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by kbertsche, posted 11-11-2009 11:53 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 167 of 309 (535178)
11-13-2009 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Huntard
11-13-2009 7:55 AM


Re: Fine tuning is alive and well
The Cosmological Constant is actually a very good example of fine tuning - we do need a reason why it has the value it takes, and much study has been made in this area. There are various potential mechanisms and of course the standard multi-verse possibility. But it does need addressing. Umpteen parameters that are necessary for life on Earth are finely tuned, and the fine tuning is kindly provided by the multiverse of planets and stars that make up the Universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Huntard, posted 11-13-2009 7:55 AM Huntard has not replied

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