why is the atheist obsessed with the Bible

if people want to believe, then it is none of the atheist business, if people want to preach it, it is none of the atheist's business

None of my business.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Why are atheists obsessed with the Bible?

Simply put, they are not. Many atheists are not particularly interested in religion at all, similar to how many religious people are not particularly occupied with unbelief.

However, you will find that most people who take anti-religious positions in English do so against Christianity. This is simply due to the fact that most English-speaking countries have a majority (or at least large proportion) of Christians as the religious makeup. The involvement of the Bible logically follows.

Keep in mind that atheism involves a non-belief in *all* religions, but all-encompassing knowledge is impractical. I for instance am no expert at all on the Aztec religious beliefs yet I do not believe them. My ignorance is reasonable given the lack of impact on my daily life. On the other hand I was raised as a Christian and my parents are both believers, so my relatively in-depth knowledge of the Bible is to be expected.

i opnly have about an hour so i will only respond to those comments i deem are honest. i may not get to everyone but i will try.

and that is that they are PUBLIC schools.

yet christians are part of that public and deserve the right to have their faith taught their children.

If you wish to see your particular version of Christianity, then of course you are free to do so, but NOT to impose your beliefs on the rest of society.

then build your own schools and pay your own salaries etc. the christians have a right to a free public education that is not filled with lies or secular ideas and they have the right , since they pay school taxes, to have the education they want.

sorry have to go general as there are just too many of you to reply to one at a time:

You came to our website, friend

yet your discussions and attacks on christianity were present long before i cam ehere and many were not filled with christian participation.

Atheist attacks on Christianity are primarily a form of self-defense

yet true christians do not attack. we do preach the truth and we are commanded to do so by a higher authority than you can conjure up. sadly some do not do it in love.

Why do we do it with the Bible? Because it's relatively easy to know more about the Bible than your average Christian, who is content to open it only at church and only to the pages told to him by the minister. And because Christians hold it as authoritative - thus, arguments that turn the Bible against Christianity are very vexing to Christians.

most atheists probably do know the Bible better than the majority of christians. many of us are lazy o busy or do not take the time we need to to study. that is one of the failures of the christian world.

the Bible is THE authority and you can't turn the Bible against itself for you do not understan dit or its teachings. you misapply terms, i.e. 4 corners of the world' or you ignore reasonable explanations, i.e. 'all sailors use that term' thus it becomes impossible to discuss with you becaus eof your closed minds.

Abuse and neglect of children is everybody's business.

not really as you are applying a very subjective standard, one that fits your mentality an dnot the truth. atheists do not know enough to claim abuse or neglect.

government's burden to save the person from needless death

this cannot be guaranteed nor proven. it is easy to claim that a simple procedure would save th elife BUT as I have shown, a simple procedure does not always come through and the person dies anyways.

Teaching religion in public schools has nothing to do with atheism, it is against the establishment clause to the 1st amendment of the Constitution.

link

Again it is not the atheist who is trying to tell a person how to raise his children, it is the government which sets certain standards which if not followed, will result in either arrest or the taking of the child from the parents. Again this will occur to anyone, not just theists.

distortion for atheists are part of the government or legal system.

Please provide one proof.

read this forum, bart ehrman, phillip davies, richard dawkins and a host of other atheistic writers.

Christians will do everything within their power to force their beliefs on everybody and anybody who does not share their same ideals.

so do atheists. remember the father who fought the words in the pledge of allegience?

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.

so do atheists, the 10 commandments flap in alabama. communist russia, china, north korea and so manyothers. atheists have no foundation and are no better than those they accuse.

Folks can believe what they want, but when they start forcing their beliefs on the rest of us it's time to fight back

keep that in mind when people fight back against your efforts to force your beliefs (unbeliefs) on others.

Even though I dont believe in God as a sentient being I see all kinds of truth in the bible. From the wisdom of the ten commandments to the sorrow of Ecclesiastes to the joy of the Song of Songs. JC was pretty cool too.

yet you do not believe. admiring something doesn't get you to heaven nor makes your life better.

Quoted from memory from a radio newscast circa 1990, give or take half a decade)

i have about 30-40 dvds with lectures, t.v. shows that interview scholars and phillip davies was in one for about 25 seconds at best. do you really think i would remember all the details...get realistic.

We know that ignorance doesn't work, because we've already tried it!

yet ignorance still reigns in american education because people ignore the truth and pursue what they want all in the name of 'freedom'. with freedom comes great responsibility {whoever said it first can have the credit} but no one wants the repsonsibility of presenting the truth and standing with it, they are too afraid they will not be re-elected. ignorance isn't a christian problem it is a secular one.

God has already told the christian to get wisdom, knowledge and understanding, and if the christians do not then they are in disobedience to God not the world.

shouldn't you read these quotes and realize that if you are going to fight against evolution or against atheism, you should at least try to learn something about it first? That applies whether you are on the offensive against something as well as when you are having to defend yourself from attack, as is our case.

evolution isn't the truth an das i have shown not one 'evolutionary' experiemnt replicates one original claimed evolutionary change . it is not i who needs to know about evolution it is you who needs to know that it is a sham.

Actually, Christians are not the only ones that applies to. Everybody has the right to practice according to their own beliefs, whatever those beliefs may be. Also, everybody (not just Christians) has the right to raise their families and teach their children their own ideas regarding religion. The only proviso is that those practices do not prevent others from exercises those same rights and that they do no harm to others and do not violate the laws of the state.

then let's dispense with public schools and everyone goes and builds their own private ones.

They are run by the state for the benefit of allcitizens of all religious persuasions. As such, they cannot impose any one religion's beliefs on all the students. Public schools are for secular and civil education; religious education belongs in the home, in the church, and in their church's religious organizations

they cannot impose the secular education either for that violates the rights of the religious. works both ways.

Edited by AdminPD, : Fixed quote box

general 2:

Public schools that should be free of all religion Christin or otherwise.

nope. public schools need to be free from the atheistic and secular ways because the religious have a right to a proper education and the secular way has failed for over 300 years. it hasn't smartened people up but dumbed them down, it hasn't stopped teen pregnancies, drugs, violence, and so much more. face it you had your chance and you failed.

If we lived in a Muslim dominated culture we would be talking about the Qur'an. If our legislative bodies were dominated by Hindus looking to force Hindu creationism into the science classroom we would be talking about the Hindu scriptures

no you wouldn't. there is a muslim culture and a hindu one feel free to move to those countries and start the crap you are doing in america and othe rwestern nations...see how long you would last. i bet you wouldn't last a week.

We are still waiting for you to go after algebra since x+y=1 makes no mention of a creator. Even worse, the calculations used to measure the volume of a sphere do not include the resurrection of the Christ

don't have to. it is not the function or purpose of math to talk about a creator or the ressurrection.

You attack its beauty, its compassion and its hope by making it stupid with your insistence that your interpretation of its myths are literal and your interpretation of its message is infallible.

no we don't because GOD has said HIs word is infallible and the truth and that JESUS is the truth. we believers are merely passing on the message because God chose to do it that way.

We attack the stupid.

please, do not insult yourselves so much. though i will give you palin as the ultimate stupid person.

At the present rate of growth in atheists as a percentage of the population in the USA, another couple generations and your fundamental, inerrant and literal stupidity of a religion will be in the useless minority where you can then fade away into oblivion without anyone noticing.

that would only happen because people love darkness rather than light. yet the truth of the Bible, the truth itself doesn't depend upon who believes it. the truth is the truth no matter what and if no one believes it then God would have to send all to hell.

Agreed. In fact, I don't know of any atheist who would disagree with this. Likewise, when people choose not to believe, it is none of the Christian's business

it is your choice but remember the believer is under the mandate to preachthe gospel to every creature, the atheist is NOT under any such command and has no authority to force their ways on anyone.

As humans, we're part of a species whose survival depends on an elaborate system of social relationships

no. your survival depends upon God.

because the churches are tax exempt, and all the money that Christians give to their churches is tax deductible.

you are free to take advantage of this as well. you can donate to atrue church and get a tax deductable receipt for your donation. want the names of some pastors who would take your money?

On the contrary, it's up to the Christians to build their own schools

wrong again. not in the constitution and the atheist needs to stop taking educational welfare and start building their own schools and paying their own salaries and bills.

Simply put, they are not. Many atheists are not particularly interested in religion at all, similar to how many religious people are not particularly occupied with unbeliefs

oh please. you obviously are not reading the works of hitchins, dawkins, hawking, and so many other atheists out there. christianity is the most attacked religion and the Bible is the most attacked book an dit is the atheist leading the way. try to stay honest.

Hi Archaeologist,

This discussion board already has a set of Forum Guidelines and a team of moderators to enforce them. Please do not attempt to impose your own rules. I'm concerned about statements like these:

archaeologist in Message 1 writes: so let's see if the atheists and secualrists on this board can be honest in this discussion and state why they are so obsessed with Christianity and the Bible.

archaeologist in Message 18 writes: i opnly have about an hour so i will only respond to those comments i deem are honest.

archaeologist in Message 20 writes: try to stay honest.

If you feel you are having problems in a discussion then report them to Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0. Do not try to take matters into your own hands.

This is not the first nor even the second time I have had to tell you this, so I will be very quick on the trigger in doing whatever is necessary to make sure that discussion remains balanced and fair and in compliance with the Forum Guidelines.

Edited by Admin, : Grammar.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

archaeologist writes: that would only happen because people love darkness rather than light. yet the truth of the Bible, the truth itself doesn't depend upon who believes it. the truth is the truth no matter what and if no one believes it then God would have to send all to hell.

Have you never noticed that God puts capital letters at the beginning of each sentence in His only known literary work?

Perhaps He does this because He's smart enough to realise that it makes it much easier for readers to distinguish between between one sentence and the next with both the period and the capital in place.

As good Christians wish to follow the example of their God, is there any chance of you doing so in this respect?

As for atheists being obsessed with the Bible, I come from a country in which about a third of the population are atheists, so I meet them all the time. It's very rare to hear them even mention the Bible, let alone show any signs of obsession with it.

The reason we discuss the Bible on sites like this is because it is a central part of the general topic of the site.

The atheists who choose to discuss the EvC topic regularly on the internet are a tiny proportion of the whole, and we are not representative.

Archaeologist,

You need to identify the author of the quotes when your post is not a direct reply to that poster. I've asked you this at least once before and if I have to ask again, I will suspend you for 24 hours.

Here is an example of what I want to see.

crashfrog writes: You came to our website, friend. Message 4

The message link is not absolutely necessary, but it is a courtesy that enables readers to view the context of the quote.

Please adjust accordingly. It would be courteous to edit the two general posts, Message 19 and Message 20, and identify the posters you quoted. You quoted their words, please give them credit.

Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 thread.

Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour suspension.

Thank you
AdminPD

nope. public schools need to be free from the atheistic and secular ways because the religious have a right to a proper education and the secular way has failed for over 300 years. it hasn't smartened people up but dumbed them down, it hasn't stopped teen pregnancies, drugs, violence, and so much more. face it you had your chance and you failed

Secularism is not taught in schools. Atheism is not taught in schools.
The absence of positive reinforcement in favour of a positive belief is not the same as positive reinforcement of the oppsoite negative belief. Not teaching Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism is not the same as teaching atheism. The sooner you can make sense of the difference, the sooner you will be able to make useful contribution to any discussion of the matter.

By the way, if you want to make general statements,
"public schools need to be free from the religious ways because the secular have a right to proper education and the religious way has failed for over 3000 years. it hasn't smartened people up but dumbed them down, it hasn't stopped teen pregnancies, drugs, violence, and so much more. face it you had your chance and you failed". Funny thing is, the second part above is true: teen pregnancy rates are higher in regions of larger religious influence because they receive substandard education regarding the body particularly the reproductive system; drugs and violence have no correlation to the presence or absence of religion so there is no causative link, so there is no way religion has stopped either. I could add a whole lot of stats about things that are worse in religious areas than in secular/mostly atheist ones -- murder and rape rates, drug offenses, fraud, terrorism, the list goes on -- but we're so far off-topic now that there's little point. Besides, they've been brought up in other threads already; you just clapped your hands on your ears and went "lah lah-lah lah-lah".

no you wouldn't. there is a muslim culture and a hindu one feel free to move to those countries and start the crap you are doing in america and othe rwestern nations...see how long you would last. i bet you wouldn't last a week

But why would we move to a different country and start to attack them? It's just as easy to stay where we are and attack the stupidity and ignorance religions have begun growing where we are, without worrying about those other places. Incidentally, if we did go there, we would start attacking the Vedas or the Quran, because that's the predominant text of the creotards there. As others have stated, if the west was Islam- or Hindu-dominated, yes, we would be attacking them and not the Bible, because the Bible would not be a problem.
By the way, we wouldn't last a week because many of those regions have far less freedom of speech and religion than the US and other westernised countries. How about you go over there, start spouting your crap about Jeebus being the Way, telling people that they must subscribe to your brand of the CCI or be doomed, and see how long you last? Wouldn't be more than three days, I think.

Again, you fail to sense the difference. If you grow up in a certain culture, and that culture focuses on a particular religion, and that religion is what you often encounter, then that religion is what -- if you ever do -- you will attack, because it is the one you know and .

don't have to. it is not the function or purpose of math to talk about a creator or the ressurrection

And it is not the purpose of science or the scientific method to talk about a creator or the resurrection. It is not the purpose of history to talk about a creator or the resurrection. It is, in fact, not the purpose of any class whatsoever except a religious studies class to talk about a creator or the resurrection.

no we don't because GOD has said HIs word is infallible and the truth and that JESUS is the truth. we believers are merely passing on the message because God chose to do it that way

blah, blah... still preaching? Okay, carry on if you wish, but take it elsewhere please.
The rest of your post just degrades (degrades further, really) into more preaching interspersed with more whinging about atheism and secularism -- despite your obvious ignorance of what either actually is -- mixed into some general statements and shaped into a strawmen: your standard repertoire once again.

So, how is this whole thread not simply an assertion of martyrdom?

Atheists attack xians, boo hoo.

quote:

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...it hasn't stopped teen pregnancies, drugs, violence, and so much more.

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That's not the job of the school system. Christianity hasn't been able to stop teen pregnancies within their own congregations. Christianity hasn't been able to stop their own members from using drugs, violence, stealing, etc. If Christians are supposedly the cream of the crop, why expect more from the supposedly "unenlightened"?

quote:

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it is your choice but remember the believer is under the mandate to preach the gospel to every creature, the atheist is NOT under any such command and has no authority to force their ways on anyone.

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This is why it is good for the religion free to understand the reality of the Bible. They can understand what is really in the book, as opposed to what has developed through tradition and dogma. The Christian isn't really under that command either.

Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have this mandate. The "good news" in one gospel isn't necessarily the same as another.

Christians don't have the authority to force their ways on anyone either. What we know of Jesus doesn't give us that example.

quote:

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oh please. you obviously are not reading the works of hitchins, dawkins, hawking, and so many other atheists out there. christianity is the most attacked religion and the Bible is the most attacked book an dit is the atheist leading the way.

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Then Christians are obsessed with atheist writings.

I don't see that atheists in general are obsessed with the Bible. By looking at this debate board one would think that Christians are obsessed with evolution and in reality, that isn't the case. Churches I've been to never address it. Evolution doesn't come up in conversations. I personally don't even debate evolution on this board.

I think some Christians feel threatened because people are trying to reign in expressions of Christianity in zones that should be neutral in a country that is not a theocracy. They are asking no more from Christianity than they do from other religions.

If you still feel that atheists in general are obsessed with the Bible, you need to show some evidence outside your own opinion to support that position.

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The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin. --Gospel of Mary

That's not the job of the school system.

It could be the job of the school system. The problem is that the conservatives oppose teaching anything that contradicts their beliefs regardless, even things that are known to lead to desired outcomes, even things that are based on fact and reasoned analysis of fact.

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To count as an atheist, one needn't claim to have proof that there are no gods. One only needs to believe that the evidence on the god question is in a similar state to the evidence on the werewolf question. -- John McCarthy

probably because we like to know things, and i dint only read the bible i read loads of so called holy books in most cases you find a bit of wisdom and a bit of moralety in them nothing earth shaterng. the only religion so far that was worth the reading is buddhism. you might want to try a bit of reserch on other religions and the devil worsheping evolution

archaeologist writes: i opnly have about an hour so i will only respond to those comments i deem are honest. i may not get to everyone but i will try. and that is that they are PUBLIC schools. yet christians are part of that public and deserve the right to have their faith taught their children.

And no one has ever stopped you from teaching YOUR faith to YOUR children, but do not try and pretend that YOUR faith is Christianity. YOUR faith is but a Veronica's Veil of Christianity, a poor copy, a smudged and perverted image.

It is though what YOU created and so you do have the right to teach it to YOUR kids.

But as a Christian, I too have rights. I would love for people like you to teach YOUR religion to my kids, just as I educated my kids by encouraging them to learn and explore Taoism and Satanism and Buddhism and Judaism and Islam and the writings of Confucius and Mencius and the Greek, Roman, German and Norse pantheons. And taught them about the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment and about the glories that are this world and the horrific acts of Christianity.

But your kids and my kids and all God's kids also need to learn about Evolution because it is FACT, not fantasy.

And your kids and my kids and all God's kids also need to learn to question and doubt and challenge YOUR beliefs and my beliefs and their beliefs.

But you fear that it seems. That is very sad and so I will pray for your enlightenment.

archaeologist writes: If you wish to see your particular version of Christianity, then of course you are free to do so, but NOT to impose your beliefs on the rest of society. then build your own schools and pay your own salaries etc. the christians have a right to a free public education that is not filled with lies or secular ideas and they have the right , since they pay school taxes, to have the education they want.

Yes, kids should not be taught lies, but so far you have been unable to show even one example of lies that are being taught to any kids but your own.

And no, no one has a right to have the education that they want.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

they do not believe it to be true, they claim their is no evidence to support its record

There's plenty of evidence that is in support of some of the things that occur in the Bible. There is also plenty of evidence that the accounts in the Bible are as dispassionate and objective as a Emperor's sanctioned war-report.

they say it is a human book

So do most theists.

so since the atheist doe snot believe the Bible to be true and that there is no God, why then are they obsessed with christianity and attack it at every turn?

They don't. However - when you live in a society where Christianity is dominant and the values and ideas are assumed as true unless someone speaks out...you can bet that some people will be speaking out a lot.

if people want to believe, then it is none of the atheist business, if people want to preach it, it is none of the atheist's business, if people want to use faith healing on their children, it is none of the atheist's business.

Then if people want to abort their pregnancy, research stem cell technology, use condoms, marry someone of a different skin colour, religion, nationality or of the same sex, spend money on advertisements that say 'It's ok to not believe in God', terminate the life of a terminally ill relative who is suffering enormously...it is none of the Christian's business. Funny how they are famous for kicking up such a massive fuss about those things then really isn't it? You have a mote in your eye.

But seriously, we all have a duty of care to protect children. So if a parent has gone mad and thinks they can feed their children on manna that comes from heaven when they pray...we should rescue the children. If a parent thinks they medicate their child with insulin from the sky, the child should be rescued. You can pray for your kid's health and I have no problem at all about that. You can even use your healing touch to drive out the negative energies. But get a doctor involved.

if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business.

The atheist contributes money to the public school system. It is therefore definitely their business. They send their children to them. And they surely have the right to not have their children religiously preached at by authority figures don't they?

if they do not like it, they can build their own schools and avoid the church buildings.

They have built their own secular schools. The cost was deducted from their wages. The Christians that preach there are not minding their own business.

the atheist has NO authority to determine what other people do in their own families

So an atheist police officer cannot arrest a Christian teen that murdered his father, the uncle that raped his niece?

All parents and governments must give an account for their actions thus the atheist should be wise and focus their attention on their responsibilities and not the responsibilities of others.

In a society we have a mutual interest in insuring that others play by the rules.

this obsession with the Bible, God and christians demonstrates that the ible is true, that God does exist, and christianity is not pie in the sky because these same peopel do not attack any false religion or their writngs as they do the Holy Bible and christianity.

Does that mean the Koran is true etc? After all - plenty of people attack that. Especially those atheists that come from an Islamic background. See Hirsi Ali as an example.

what are they afraid of?

The kind of moral depravity that occurs when we all rely uncritically on the words of the Bible as social guidance. See: the last 1800 years or so.

clearly they are afraid because they know they are wrong and do not have the stones to admit it nor repent from their sins because they think they will lose much.

Have you ever tried to really consider this from another person's point of view? Have you even considered the possibility that maybe it is you who are afraid because you know you are wrong but you don't have the stones to admit it?

If it is false then why are they so worried about it?

Because it's false and people believe it is true. If you can't see why this might be a concern why don't you try to imagine living in a country that basis its social policy on a religious system you don't agree with?

if it is false why should they have to force secular science its theories on everyone?

Yet this has not happened. There is no force. There are plenty of actual historical examples of theories being forced onto others - I'm assuming you've not thought about them given the large number of examples that are religious in nature.

if evolution were true then why are they afraid of creation being taught in schools?

Because teaching children false things is morally repugnant? Why are the creationists so wound up about evolution being taught if creation is true?

if creation and God are false then why are the atheist so bent on hindering its efforts?

Nazi propaganda was false. Would you have used this line of reasoning if you were a pure-blooded German in the 1930s?

everyone knows that if something is false it will be dropped by everyone except by the most diehard fanatics.

The evidence screams the opposite. Your next sentence proves your own statement false:

quote:

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yet all false religions use the Bible and its stories in their teacings as they know you need partial truth to deceive people and con them out of their money.

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Exactly. And many atheists have a conscience that doesn't like people being conned out of their money - in plain sight - without anyone speaking up.

so the ball is in the atheist court and let's see them use real evidence to back up their points.

The Bible is an awesome set of books - near complete and ancient. Filled with pathos, heartache, doubt, sex, love, surprise twists (Ruth is a shocker!), anger, betrayal, struggle and ultimate vindication. What's not to like?

Atheists mostly criticise those religious views that lead to pressure towards certain social policies (from banning abortion through legalizing faith healing in lieu of medical attention to teaching Creationism as viable science all the way over to stoning a girl to death for having the audacity to get raped).

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abe: I've made an intellectual shortcut in the interests of discussion. 'Atheist' is such a loose grouping it is impossible to say 'atheists do this' or 'atheists do that' and be saying much. So I've assumed you mean the non-believing secularists that debate/argue/criticise in public etc.

Likewise with Christians - I'm hoping I successfully communicated that I am talking about those Christians that engage in the debate, social policy reformation or take other actions (or lack thereof) that have social impact etc. based on their religious viewpoint.

There are plenty of both groups that simply do 'mind their own business'.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.