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Author Topic:   A fatal logical flaw in creationism?
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Suspended Member (Idle past 7215 days)
Posts: 423
Joined: 07-23-2003


Message 34 of 214 (101334)
04-20-2004 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by desdamona
04-20-2004 4:40 PM


Re: There had to be a first!
desdamona writes:
Yes,but do you understand that there had to be a first?
No, there doesn't have to have been a first anything. Let me illustrate with gman's post #8 in this thread:
gman writes:
If we assume that time actually exists as we perceive it to exist, (A linear series of events moving from past to future) then time must have a starting point. Otherwise we would never have reached the present moment because an infinite number of events would have already happened in the past...and infinity can't end.
This demonstrates a certain naivete of relativity theory and the various ways of describing infinities. There is nothing irrational about the idea of an infinite number of temporal moments in our past because time is not discrete -- it's continuous (think: space-time continuum). All continuous intervals are infinite, even if they are bounded. The last hour had an infinite number of temporal moments in it, and so did the last minute, and the last second for that matter. Even so, there's no rule that says infinite sets cannot have a least or greatest element. The points on a closed continous interval comprise an infinite set with BOTH a greatest and least element, for example.
The argument that an infinite number of temporal moments cannot have passed for the reason that "infinities don't end" is easily overcome by some elementary training in set theory.

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 Message 32 by desdamona, posted 04-20-2004 4:40 PM desdamona has replied

Replies to this message:
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Posts: 423
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Message 37 of 214 (101377)
04-20-2004 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by desdamona
04-20-2004 8:57 PM


Re: There had to be a first!
desdamona writes:
God is infinite and he doesn't need time.
People cannot be omni-present.We cannot ever know all things.
It takes faith to be a christian and it takes faith to be an
evolutionist.They both require faith.
Do you have anything to say that actually addresses my statements?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by desdamona, posted 04-20-2004 8:57 PM desdamona has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by desdamona, posted 04-20-2004 11:37 PM :æ: has replied

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Posts: 423
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Message 38 of 214 (101378)
04-20-2004 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by desdamona
04-20-2004 8:54 PM


Re: There had to be a first!
desdamona writes:
I can't believe it because it would be a great burden on the backs of all humans.
You do realize that the burden it might incur on humans is completely irrelevant to the truth of the matter, don't you?
We need someone to care for us and look after us.
Please speak for yourself. I'm doing quite well looking after myself, thank you very much.
We need to know that someone is in complete control.
Again, you might like to think that "someone is in complete control," however I have never found it necessary.
How can man save man from man?
I'm not convinced that men NEED to be saved from men.

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 Message 35 by desdamona, posted 04-20-2004 8:54 PM desdamona has replied

Replies to this message:
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Suspended Member (Idle past 7215 days)
Posts: 423
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Message 41 of 214 (101404)
04-21-2004 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by desdamona
04-20-2004 11:34 PM


Re: There had to be a first!
desdamona writes:
Hey,hey,hey,hey, I am not directing this at you personally.
Then perhaps you should consider using "I" as the subject of your sentences instead of "we."
The threat of violence always hung over my head,so I am glad that there is a God...
...hanging the threat of violence over your head.
I just wanted to know if anyone considered the possibility,that there had to be a first,or that there was a first?
The possibility has been considered, and so far nothing requires that there is one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by desdamona, posted 04-20-2004 11:34 PM desdamona has replied

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Posts: 423
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Message 42 of 214 (101405)
04-21-2004 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by desdamona
04-20-2004 11:37 PM


Re: There had to be a first!
desdamona writes:
Do you mean that creationists have it all wrong?
While that is something I believe, that is not what my statements signified.
I mean that the argument that there MUST be a so-called "First Cause" since time allegedly cannot be infinite in the past is a faulty one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by desdamona, posted 04-20-2004 11:37 PM desdamona has replied

Replies to this message:
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