Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,920 Year: 4,177/9,624 Month: 1,048/974 Week: 7/368 Day: 7/11 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A fatal logical flaw in creationism?
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 58 of 214 (101680)
04-21-2004 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Coragyps
04-21-2004 8:02 PM


A Big Waste of Time
Guys, you know this one isn't worth the effort. There are no particular reasoning skills here and almost no reading skills.
But, if you're having fun....
[This message has been edited by NosyNed, 04-21-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Coragyps, posted 04-21-2004 8:02 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by coffee_addict, posted 04-21-2004 8:40 PM NosyNed has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 160 of 214 (102193)
04-23-2004 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Loudmouth
04-23-2004 1:31 PM


Big Words
A very nice post, Loudmouth, but you've used rather a lot of big words. I do not mean this as a slight to Des. At an introductory level you need to make it simpler and clearer.
E.g., "Phylogeny"
Though you indirectly explain this term subsequently it's very presence is possibly, a show stopper for someone new to all of this and without much to build on.
2. Phylogeny should be related to the age of fossils. That is, the evolutionary tree built from differences in body shape should be reflected in the ages of the fossils. The body shape tree is made independently of the age, but the two still match up. This test shows how the fossils are laid down according to evolutionary mechanisms, or the inheritance of morphology and adaptation of new morphology. Combine this with the genetic data above and you have three independent variables that all come to the same conclusion, evolution probably happened.
Let me try:
If todays living things got here by evolutionary steps then we should see that extinct fossilzed animals that are nearer in time should be more like those living today. We should also see that as we go further back in time they should be less and less like those today.
Now that we know about DNA and the genetics of living things we should also expect that those which the fossil record show separated more recently should have more similar genetics.
The fossil record, it's dating, the relationships of the bodies of living and extinct things AND the genetics of living things ALL are matched up exactly has evolution would predict. They are independently measured but all work out correctly.
That's my attempt. I'm not sure if it's simpler or not. That is in the eye of the beholder.
[This message has been edited by NosyNed, 04-23-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Loudmouth, posted 04-23-2004 1:31 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by coffee_addict, posted 04-23-2004 2:11 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 162 by coffee_addict, posted 04-23-2004 2:13 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 163 by Loudmouth, posted 04-23-2004 2:47 PM NosyNed has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 164 of 214 (102205)
04-23-2004 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Loudmouth
04-23-2004 2:47 PM


Re: Big Words
You've both done a great job of demystifying the scientific jargon into easily understood arguments
That remains to be seen. The fossil record, genetics, phologony match has been posted a number of times here. There has been no hint that the literalists understand it at all. I think it needs to be made much, much simpler yet.
There has never been any answer put forward at all or a link to a site which hints at an answer. This should be a hint for those who are still thinking that there is no evidence for evolution. There a several issues raised (this one and the dating methods correlation for examples) that has NEVER received even a hint of an answer that addresses the issue. You might get suspicious that the creation "scientists" of ICR and the like don't actually have an answer, that, in fact there isn't one. The young earth and instantantaneous creation ideas are, from the evidence, wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Loudmouth, posted 04-23-2004 2:47 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Loudmouth, posted 04-23-2004 3:12 PM NosyNed has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024