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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
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Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1216 of 1249 (854483)
06-09-2019 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1212 by AZPaul3
06-08-2019 1:17 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
A below-replacement birth-rate eventually leads to an ever-increasing ageing population - ie, not many young people and lots of old people. If left unchecked, this will produce an economic disaster - huge chunks of workers' (young people) income will need to be taxed in order to support all the elderly. It could theoretically get to the stage where this welfare tax is so high that workers (the young) are virually working for no financial gain at all. Imagine the potential situation in which (on average) one worker has to support five or ten of the elderly (ie, non workers).

In Japan, such a situation is looming - it is estimated that in about twenty years, ONE THIRD of the population will be aged above 60. Feminism is worse than a fool's paradise - it's a "wolf in sheep's clothing" and a death trap.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1212 by AZPaul3, posted 06-08-2019 1:17 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1218 by AZPaul3, posted 06-09-2019 2:46 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1217 of 1249 (854484)
06-09-2019 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1215 by ringo
06-08-2019 12:03 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
You're assuming the birth-rates of the immigrants will be healthy. But what if the immigrant women are brainwashed by feminism as well? They won't reproduce in sufficient numbers either.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1215 by ringo, posted 06-08-2019 12:03 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1230 by ringo, posted 06-09-2019 2:05 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4097
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 1218 of 1249 (854486)
06-09-2019 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1216 by Dredge
06-09-2019 2:25 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
huge chunks of workers' (young people) income will need to be taxed in order to support all the elderly

Tax schemes need to be changed. Simple.

Easier and less disruptive than designating half our population as inferior beings.

Why do Christians hate so much?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1219 of 1249 (854487)
06-09-2019 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1214 by vimesey
06-08-2019 4:20 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
The "replacement" level birth rate in first-world countries is about 2.1 children/ woman. I can't find any "feminist" countries that have a birth-rate at or above this level.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1214 by vimesey, posted 06-08-2019 4:20 AM vimesey has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1226 by RAZD, posted 06-09-2019 8:00 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1220 of 1249 (854488)
06-09-2019 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1187 by Pressie
06-05-2019 5:45 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
If you know how macroevolution occurs, how would you bred synapsids to evolve into mammals?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by Pressie, posted 06-05-2019 5:45 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1221 of 1249 (854489)
06-09-2019 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1189 by Tanypteryx
06-05-2019 10:41 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanypteryx writes:

you are correct about one thing, I don’t know how to breed a winged-insect from a non-winged-insect


No kidding? You - the expert on "how macroevolution occurs" - wouldn’t even know where to start!

I might not be able to breed a winged insect from a non-winged insect, but I can change a caterpillar into a butterfly, simply by feeding it the right food.

Oh well, say no more - that confirms it – you really DO know “how macroevolution occurs” - your knowledge is right up there with your average ten year-old!

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1189 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-05-2019 10:41 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1228 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-09-2019 11:01 AM Dredge has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1222 of 1249 (854490)
06-09-2019 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1191 by Taq
06-05-2019 11:28 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Taq writes:

Due to the contingent nature of evolutionary histories, we shouldn't observe modern reptiles evolving into birds. If you understood how evolution works, you would already know this.

Okay, well if you had access to ancient reptiles (ie, the evolutionary ancestors of birds) please explain how you would breed them to produce birds.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1191 by Taq, posted 06-05-2019 11:28 AM Taq has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1223 of 1249 (854491)
06-09-2019 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1193 by AZPaul3
06-05-2019 1:08 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:

What part of leave them alone for a few million years do you not understand? That is a breeding program that has already worked for every organism on this planet today

That’s like saying, “This is how you breed sausage dogs from wolves: You just leave wolves alone to for a few thousand years and eventually they will evolve into sausage dogs.” In other words, you’re clueless as to how you would go about breeding synapsids to evolve into mammals – the best you can come with is, “Evolution done it” – which proves you really know nothing about “how macroevolution occurs.”

It may tell *you* nothing

Ya got that right! It’s tells me nothing because you know nothing about how macroevolution would actually work in a practical sense to produce the fossil record – all you’ve got is blind faith in meaningless theories.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1193 by AZPaul3, posted 06-05-2019 1:08 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1224 of 1249 (854492)
06-09-2019 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1214 by vimesey
06-08-2019 4:20 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
vimesey writes:

This diversion is off topic


I take your point, but the thread ran off-topic about a thousand posts ago.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1214 by vimesey, posted 06-08-2019 4:20 AM vimesey has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1131
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1225 of 1249 (854495)
06-09-2019 5:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1213 by Tanypteryx
06-08-2019 1:18 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanypteryx writes:

Mutations.


If I asked you how to breed a sheep dog from wolves and you simply said "Mutations" I would have no idea about how to perform such a feat ... then I would conclude you know next to nothing about the subject. Face it, you have absolutely no idea how you would go about breeding non-winged insects to evolve into winged insects. Your claim to possessing macroevolutionary knowledge appears be delusionary and bogus.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1213 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-08-2019 1:18 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1227 by edge, posted 06-09-2019 10:16 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 1229 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-09-2019 11:33 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19869
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1226 of 1249 (854497)
06-09-2019 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1219 by Dredge
06-09-2019 2:48 AM


And another useful application of evolutionary theory
The "replacement" level birth rate in ...

Why is this a concern? The population in the US has doubled since I was in high school, so obviously there can be a reduction in population and still have a viable population. A larger concern is overpopulation and whether or not we develop a sustainable culture.

In ecology one talks about the carrying capacity of an environment. Studies/observations show that populations over that capacity results in temporary overuse of needed resources, and that results in less resources available for individuals, and this subsequently causes a reduction of population. The result is swings in population sizes (unless species develop (evolve) ability to use alternate resources or they move to new (for them) environments that can support them).

Interesting read on this topic: Hairston, Nelson G., Frederick E. Smith, and Lawrence B. Slobodkin. "Community Structure, Population Control, and Competition." The American Naturalist 94, no. 879 (1960): 421-25. http://www.jstor.org/stable/2458808.

... known as the "Why is the world green" paper.

Short explanation on youtube

Disclaimer: Frederick E. Smith was my father.

For confirmation, see Ecologists explain why the world is green

quote:
Reporting their results in the March issue of the British Ecological Society’s Journal of Ecology, a team lead by Professor John Terborgh of Duke University says that the role of predators is the key to keeping the world green, because they keep the numbers of plant-eating herbivores under control. Their results support the so-called “green world hypothesis” first proposed in 1960 by Hairston, Smith and Slobodkin and seem to lay to rest the competing theory that plants protect themselves from being eaten through the physical and chemical defences they have developed.

As well as proving that the green world hypothesis is correct, Terborgh’s results have important implications for the debate raging in many countries over reintroduction of top predators such as wolves. “The take-home message is clear: the presence of a viable carnivore guild is fundamental to maintaining biodiversity,” he says.


These implications holds for humans as well.

History also shows that human cultures have consistently grown until the population is so large it overused resources and that resulted in loss of sustainable culture and subsequent collapse. Cultures rose, prospered and then collapsed.

Interesting read on this topic: The Day Before America by William H. MacLeish:

quote:
A storyteller with a penchant for history, MacLeish weaves a spellbinding tale about human life and environmental change in North America north of Mexico after about 15,000 B.C. Drawing on the work of archaeologists, paleobiologists, and the comments of Native Americans, he synthesizes what is known about the first Americans and their cultural evolution. In this personal odyssey, MacLeish addresses questions of human ecology, population growth, climate change, warfare, cultural morality, domestication origins, and a host of other issues of contemporary social and public policy. This unique and engaging essay will be of interest to the general reader.

It's about native cultures before America was "discovered" and named by Columbus et al, their history from first post ice age explorers to the large cultures that covered these lands before the Europeans arrived.

... I can't find any "feminist" countries ...

We are not immune to the needs of sustainable culture and ecological awareness instead of blind population growth. Forcing women to have more children will not solve that problem. Blaming any group of (biased) choice for general problems they have not caused is counterproductive and doesn't solve the problem. Blaming 'others' (scapegoating) for problems you (your culture) have caused doesn't solve them.

Understanding the problem is the first step in solving it. In ecological/evolutionary terms this means developing a sustainable culture rather than one that grows blindly with inevitable consequences.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : added.

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1219 by Dredge, posted 06-09-2019 2:48 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 4605
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 1227 of 1249 (854504)
06-09-2019 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1225 by Dredge
06-09-2019 5:23 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
If I asked you how to breed a sheep dog from wolves and you simply said "Mutations" I would have no idea about how to perform such a feat ... then I would conclude you know next to nothing about the subject. Face it, you have absolutely no idea how you would go about breeding non-winged insects to evolve into winged insects.

Breeding is a form of selection and selection is not evolution. Your 'breeding' scenario for accomplishing evolution is nonsense. You need to decide what your point is.

Your claim to possessing macroevolutionary knowledge appears be delusionary and bogus.

Actually, your understanding of evolution is delusional and bogus.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1225 by Dredge, posted 06-09-2019 5:23 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1244 by Dredge, posted 06-12-2019 2:22 AM edge has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 1228 of 1249 (854505)
06-09-2019 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1221 by Dredge
06-09-2019 3:25 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

you are correct about one thing, I don’t know how to breed a winged-insect from a non-winged-insect


No kidding? You - the expert on "how macroevolution occurs" - wouldn’t even know where to start!

Not an expert, but I know what macroevolution is, and you do not.

Dredge writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

I might not be able to breed a winged insect from a non-winged insect, but I can change a caterpillar into a butterfly, simply by feeding it the right food.

Oh well, say no more - that confirms it – you really DO know “how macroevolution occurs” - your knowledge is right up there with your average ten year-old!

I know that breeding is not is not a surrogate for evolution and you do not.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1221 by Dredge, posted 06-09-2019 3:25 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1243 by Dredge, posted 06-12-2019 2:00 AM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 1229 of 1249 (854508)
06-09-2019 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1225 by Dredge
06-09-2019 5:23 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

Mutations.


If I asked you how to breed a sheep dog from wolves and you simply said "Mutations" I would have no idea about how to perform such a feat ... then I would conclude you know next to nothing about the subject.

Yeah, but you didn't ask me that, did you?

You asked Message 1210:

quote:
So, what is your grand plan for breeding insects to radically evolve without reducing genetic diversity?

Mutations is the obvious answer to reducing genetic diversity, but a grand plan for breeding insects is your delusion.

Dredge writes:

then I would conclude you know next to nothing about the subject.

And you would be correct, I know nothing about breeding sheep dogs from wolves and neither do you. You are apparently operating under the delusion that breeding and evolution are the same thing, but you are wrong.

Dredge writes:

Face it, you have absolutely no idea how you would go about breeding non-winged insects to evolve into winged insects.

And I note, I never claimed to have any ideas about this at all, but I have said that breeding is not a surrogate for evolution.

Dredge writes:

Your claim to possessing macroevolutionary knowledge appears be delusionary and bogus.

Well, your delusions on the subject are quite obvious, so until you know what you are talking about, no one else will know what you are talking about either.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1225 by Dredge, posted 06-09-2019 5:23 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1230 of 1249 (854513)
06-09-2019 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1217 by Dredge
06-09-2019 2:34 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:

You're assuming the birth-rates of the immigrants will be healthy. But what if the immigrant women are brainwashed by feminism as well? They won't reproduce in sufficient numbers either.


My assumption is based on facts - i.e. past history. Yours is based on a stupid misconception about feminism.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1217 by Dredge, posted 06-09-2019 2:34 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
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