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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1411 of 1481 (879154)
07-12-2020 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1406 by AZPaul3
07-11-2020 3:05 AM


Re: missing rings
quote:
The passage of time, the decay of radioactive elements, the growth of trees, is all the same today as they were 10,000, 10 million, 4.5 billion and 13.75 billion years ago.
All time passing is time on earth, and the area of the solar system. You seek to use that passing and nature of time as the standard to model all the universe on. All you claims of time rest on that premise.

Yes time passes on earth and we know what time is like here and what it has been like since the creation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1406 by AZPaul3, posted 07-11-2020 3:05 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1415 by AZPaul3, posted 07-12-2020 5:19 PM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1412 of 1481 (879156)
07-12-2020 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1408 by AZPaul3
07-11-2020 10:14 AM


Truth matters.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1408 by AZPaul3, posted 07-11-2020 10:14 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1418 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 4:24 AM dad has not yet responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1413 of 1481 (879159)
07-12-2020 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1409 by JonF
07-11-2020 3:54 PM


Re: Lay it on the table
quote:
I'm being perfectly clear. I don't know how many samples,and their locations, and that information doesn't matter to the result.
Of course it matters. Only the rings some 5000 years ago or 4500 or whatever matter. So if there is an old tree with say, 6000 rings, only the first thousand rings or so matter. How else would it relate to how fast trees grew in Noah's day?

quote:
Throughout the sequence, after they had cross-dated the samples by their rings.
Where in the sequences? Unless you produce samples in the time in question, it is not even relevant.

quote:
All studies. SOP means Standard Operating Procedure
That means nothing without telling us exactly what it is. You can't claim a cross section when you do not even know if carbon samples were taken from 5000 year plus rings. If you claim it was then show exactly where in the rings the sample was taken in that area.

quote:
Very unlikely; each test costs money, around $140-450 depending on how much of their work is involved preparing the sample.
OK, that means it is very selective. We need to know who selected what exactly. Otherwise you have no point or support for a same nature in the far past.

This message is a reply to:
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dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1414 of 1481 (879161)
07-12-2020 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1410 by JonF
07-11-2020 4:07 PM


Re: missing rings
quote:
The sequence covers the last 10,429 years. Are you capable of understanding that 4,500 years ago and 5,000 years ago are both included in that time frame?

You admit not knowing where the carbon samples were taken from, no? You assume it was from the pre 5000 deep rings. Yet you have no example or specs. Show us any tree that is several thousand years old, with carbon samples specifically taken from the area more than 5000 deep?

quote:
And, in your fantasy, carbon 14 decayed at the same rate as trees grew rings.
No. How would I know there was any decay at all at the time? We need evidence for claims.

quote:
Changing the fundamental makeup of the Universe to that extent would render life as we know it impossible

This nature would not have changed so life is fine, thanks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1410 by JonF, posted 07-11-2020 4:07 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1470 by JonF, posted 07-19-2020 12:50 PM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5244
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1415 of 1481 (879186)
07-12-2020 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1411 by dad
07-12-2020 2:19 PM


Re: missing rings
You seek to use that passing and nature of time as the standard to model all the universe on.

All time is relative, everywhere in the universe, and the operations of relativity are invariant regardless of frame of reference anywhere in the universe. And this is known to be true because we are not stupid and can measure with extreme precision the frequencies, polarization and phases of light from billions of light years across the universe from every direction we look.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1411 by dad, posted 07-12-2020 2:19 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1416 by dad, posted 07-13-2020 1:33 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1416 of 1481 (879214)
07-13-2020 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1415 by AZPaul3
07-12-2020 5:19 PM


Realativity is relative
quote:
All time is relative, everywhere in the universe..
You cannot speak about what time is like in the unknown deep universe you have no way to measure or see it. We can say what time is like here on earth and the area of the solar system. You seek to extend what we know into the unknown. Seeing that certain aspects of GR seem to apply far away does not mean time exists out there as we know it.

quote:
..the operations of relativity are invariant regardless of frame of reference anywhere in the universe

No. Things like gravitational waves do not tell us that. The waves are detected here in our spacetime and we see the ripples here.

As an example of how they detect the waves on earth we see this..

"
A laser is fed into the machine and its beam is split along two paths
The separate paths bounce back and forth between damped mirrors
Eventually, the two beams are recombined and sent to a detector

Gravitational waves passing through the lab should disturb the set-up

Theory holds they should very subtly stretch and squeeze its space

This ought to show itself as a change in the lengths of the light arms
The photodetector captures this signal in the recombined beams"

Third detection of deep space warping

Notice how our space here on earth is what was squeezed.

So we are looking at how our spacetime is affected. Yes there are waves from far away coming in. Yes somethimg caused them. The thing is that we do not see the waves anywhwere else but here.

Now add to that that distances rely on space and time being the same, so if they are not NO DISTANCES to stars or black holes etc are known. All your math is affected.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1415 by AZPaul3, posted 07-12-2020 5:19 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1417 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 3:47 AM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5244
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1417 of 1481 (879220)
07-13-2020 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1416 by dad
07-13-2020 1:33 AM


Re: Realativity is relative
You cannot speak about what time is like in the unknown deep universe you have no way to measure or see it.

You are ignorant of the vast wealth of information in waves of EM energy. So much of the universe is revealed to us in that information.

You have closed your eyes and your mind to the science of light spectra, frequency, polarization, modulation and quantum electrodynamics.

We KNOW deep time. We DO measure it to one part in billions and we see it clearly in the vast reaches throughout the universe despite your religious denials.

Things like gravitational waves do not tell us that. The waves are detected here in our spacetime and we see the ripples here.

Your knowledge of LIGO/Virgo is old and primitive. All three detectors have undergone massive upgrades since your cited article and are undergoing yet further upgrades this year. We have seen and analysed not three but, now, multiple dozens of signals.

Both EM energy and gravitational wave energy are much more complex than you can possibly understand. The wealth of information in the waves is beyond your limited comprehension. We know how these things work both here and, despite your religious proclivities and desires, there from where they emanate.

Those gravity waves that squeeze the arms of the detectors here on Earth traveled many billions of years through the universe. That is the kind of information encoded in the waves themselves and the smart guys know how to tease that information from the sub-modulations we see in the vibrations of the arms.

We only see the waves here because we knew how to build the detectors. Gravitational waves from billions of light years away only vibrate the LIGO arms by the width of a proton.

Why would you think we would see such waves without the most sophisticated and sensitive of detectors? You have no idea what you are talking about and that level of ignorance is dangerous to the species. You cannot be trusted with evidence. You do not know how to handle it and you cannot do science with it. All you can do is misinterpret and screw it up royal as is the penchant of religious zealots.

Your reaching and scratching for some evidence of some "other" nature has led you, again, to reveal your ignorance of the reality we know.

You still have nothing. And for all your trying you will continue to have nothing.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1416 by dad, posted 07-13-2020 1:33 AM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1419 by dad, posted 07-13-2020 2:28 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5244
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1418 of 1481 (879224)
07-13-2020 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1412 by dad
07-12-2020 2:20 PM


Obviously not to you it doesn't.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1412 by dad, posted 07-12-2020 2:20 PM dad has not yet responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1419 of 1481 (879242)
07-13-2020 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1417 by AZPaul3
07-13-2020 3:47 AM


Re: Realativity is relative
quote:
You are ignorant of the vast wealth of information in waves of EM energy. So much of the universe is revealed to us in that information.

You have closed your eyes and your mind to the science of light spectra, frequency, polarization, modulation and quantum electrodynamics.

We KNOW deep time. We DO measure it to one part in billions and we see it clearly in the vast reaches throughout the universe despite your religious denials.


Please tell us if light we see in this earth comes from far away? Tell us where we see this light? Do we see it out there, or after it gets here? Ha.
quote:
Your knowledge of LIGO/Virgo is old and primitive. All three detectors have undergone massive upgrades since your cited article and are undergoing yet further upgrades this year. We have seen and analysed not three but, now, multiple dozens of signals.
That was a googled article, not my knowledge of anything. Do tell us how the newer equipment does more than detect ripples on earth though? Ha.
quote:
Both EM energy and gravitational wave energy are much more complex than you can possibly understand. The wealth of information in the waves is beyond your limited comprehension. We know how these things work both here and, despite your religious proclivities and desires, there from where they emanate.
Walk us through what you think you know about the ripples at source?

quote:
We only see the waves here because we knew how to build the detectors. Gravitational waves from billions of light years away only vibrate the LIGO arms by the width of a proton.
The problem is that since ripples are only detected in the fishbowl here that come from somewhere else, you can really only speak to the way it is here. As for the millions of years claim, that sits on a premise of time and space existing the same in the universe. That is not known, so times and distances claimed are invalid.

quote:
Your reaching and scratching for some evidence of some "other" nature has led you, again, to reveal your ignorance of the reality we know.

Nature is not an issue here. Where nature becomes an issue is here on earth and in the far past.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1417 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 3:47 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1420 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 7:47 PM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5244
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1420 of 1481 (879267)
07-13-2020 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1419 by dad
07-13-2020 2:28 PM


Re: Realativity is relative
Do you have some kind of problem with energy reaching here to earth from billions of light years away? Do you have some kind of problem with energy reaching here to earth from billions of light years away with the changes in properties it has accumulated along the way?

Of course you do. It denies the errant religious narrative of some "other" nature that alters time and physical constants to justify the silly majik in your silly religious myths.

You have to deny the reality of human knowledge, which you are unable to comprehend anyway, in order to maintain your religious delusions.

The problem is that since ripples are only detected in the fishbowl here that come from somewhere else, you can really only speak to the way it is here.

The point you don't care to comprehend is that this fishbowl is 96 billion light years in diameter and the ripples that reach us from anywhere and everywhere within that fishbowl, be they EM or gravity waves, carry with them the telltale imprints of their origin and their journey and their time.

Nature is not an issue here. Where nature becomes an issue is here on earth and in the far past.

Liar. For you nature is always the issue. You *need* an altered "other" nature, a totally different set of physical laws, to operate at convenient times in convenient places to affect the environment so to justify your puny god's puny majik in keeping with your puny creation myths. Reality and actual human knowledge destroy that fantasy environment relegating your god to impotence.

You have no choice but to deny fact and evidence, to deny the accumulated scientific knowledge of humanity and the reality this reveals to us, in order to maintain your religious fantasy.

You are a religious troll. You cannot acknowledge, you cannot be trusted with evidence and its conclusions. You are a poison to the intellect of the species.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1419 by dad, posted 07-13-2020 2:28 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1421 by dad, posted 07-14-2020 1:19 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1421 of 1481 (879276)
07-14-2020 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1420 by AZPaul3
07-13-2020 7:47 PM


Re: Realativity is relative
quote:
Do you have some kind of problem with energy reaching here to earth from billions of light years away?

Ir reaches here from somewhere. The time it takes would depend on what time and space were like between here and there. This we don't know. Do you have a problem admitting you do not know?

quote:
The point you don't care to comprehend is that this fishbowl is 96 billion light years in diameter

I refer to the solar system and area as the fishbowl. Man has not been or sent probes further than this.

quote:
and the ripples that reach us from anywhere and everywhere within that fishbowl, be they EM or gravity waves, carry with them the telltale imprints of their origin and their journey and their time.

The arriving waves do not tell us what time is like out there.

quote:
Liar. For you nature is always the issue. You *need* an altered "other" nature, a totally different set of physical laws, to operate at convenient times in convenient places to affect the environment so to justify your...

For science claims about origins of life on earth, nature is the issue. You need it to be the same for your religion. You have no proof and offer none. Troll.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1420 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 7:47 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1422 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2020 4:21 AM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5244
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1422 of 1481 (879287)
07-14-2020 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1421 by dad
07-14-2020 1:19 AM


Re: Realativity is relative
Do you have a problem admitting you do not know?

Yes, because as a matter of fact we *do* know what spacetime is like between any here and any there in this universe. It is you who needs the ignorance to continue your fantasy.

I refer to the solar system and area as the fishbowl. Man has not been or sent probes further than this.

How truly ignorant you are.

We don't need to send probes out *there* to discover the physics of reality. The universe is sending literally trillions of probes of detailed information here to us. This entire universe is our fishbowl.

You have not looked. You have not studied the science. You do not know the vast amount of information each photon of each EM and gravity wave brings to us. Information on where it came from, how it was generated, the length and path through both space and time it traversed, the composition of all the space and molecular clouds through which it passed and the forces of physics that created and sustain it.

Again, we are not stupid. We know how to read this wealth of information and thus we learn more of the reality of the universe that sent it to us. These messengers from the stars tell us how the universe works and what it is made of. Soon, maybe, it will tell us how it came to be.

The ignorance you say we wallow in is false. The ignorance you wish to foist upon all humanity is rejected.

For science claims about origins of life on earth, nature is the issue. You need it to be the same for your religion.

You are the one who seeks to fake the nature, fiddle the laws of physics and lie to the universe to maintain your religious delusions. You keep yourself and seek to keep us all ignorant of reality because reality defies your fantasies.

Such deception is evil and is condemned by reality.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1421 by dad, posted 07-14-2020 1:19 AM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1423 by dad, posted 07-14-2020 3:18 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1423 of 1481 (879314)
07-14-2020 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1422 by AZPaul3
07-14-2020 4:21 AM


Re: Realativity is relative
quote:
as a matter of fact we *do* know what spacetime is like between any here and any there in this universe.
A thread like this is where you would post the evidence for that claim. I don't believe you.

quote:
The universe is sending literally trillions of probes of detailed information here to us.

Whatever is sent arrives here in our space and time.
quote:
You are the one who seeks to fake the nature..
Nature on earth is what it is, and was what it was. You know what you know and don't know what you don't know. So stop claiming to know it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1422 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2020 4:21 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1424 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2020 4:11 PM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5244
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1424 of 1481 (879324)
07-14-2020 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1423 by dad
07-14-2020 3:18 PM


Re: Realativity is relative
I don't believe you.

I don't care.

So stop claiming to know it.

I do not "claim" we know physics is/was consistent. There is no other option.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1423 by dad, posted 07-14-2020 3:18 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1425 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 10:00 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1425 of 1481 (879348)
07-15-2020 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1424 by AZPaul3
07-14-2020 4:11 PM


Options smoptians
Your choice to believe something is your own option. Not science.

Edited by dad, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1424 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2020 4:11 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1426 by Phat, posted 07-15-2020 10:38 AM dad has responded
 Message 1427 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 11:17 AM dad has responded

  
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