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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 781 of 1864 (900933)
11-02-2022 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 772 by candle2
11-01-2022 2:11 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
candle2 writes:
Ringo, you say that God created everything.
Not exactly. I say that IF God is the creator of all thiungs seen and unseen, as Phat claims, then He created evil as well as good.
candle2 writes:
I am going to force you...
That's a tall order. But take your best shot.
candle2 writes:
Who is Melchisedec in Hebrews 7.
"King of Salem, priest of the most high God." (verse 1.)
candle2 writes:
He is without father,
without mother, without descent, having neither
beginning of days, nor end of life;
That would be a figure of speech.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 772 by candle2, posted 11-01-2022 2:11 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 793 by candle2, posted 11-03-2022 4:23 PM ringo has replied
 Message 795 by candle2, posted 11-03-2022 6:59 PM ringo has replied
 Message 797 by candle2, posted 11-04-2022 8:50 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 782 of 1864 (900934)
11-02-2022 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 773 by candle2
11-02-2022 8:14 AM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
candle2 writes:
Ringo, Exodus 24: 9-10

"Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu,
and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the
God of Israel:..."

Who did they see?
"The God of Israel."
This is pretty easy so far.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 773 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 8:14 AM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 783 of 1864 (900935)
11-02-2022 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 774 by candle2
11-02-2022 10:31 AM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
candle2 writes:
Ringo, who was speaking to whom in Genesis 3:23?

"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as
one of us..."
Apparently that was written before it was decided that there was only one god.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 774 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 10:31 AM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 784 of 1864 (900937)
11-02-2022 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 776 by Phat
11-02-2022 10:54 AM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Phat writes:
Jesus was in the beginning with God and was God. Ringo disagrees and claims that in the beginning was the Word (message)...
I have challenged you to show ANYWHERE that the word "word" refers to anything but words. You have failed utterly to come up with anything.
Phat writes:
... which ringo has perverted into a socialist ideal.
You should be ashamed of yourself, calling what Jesus said a "perversion".
Phat writes:
He defends his assertion by claiming that Jesus told us to give it all up.
It's not an "assertion". It IS what Jesus is reported to have said. The disciples understood it. The early church understood it. Even YOU claim to understand it once in a while.
Phat writes:
I finally agreed with him in that we are to give up all of our heart and mind to the Lord, but ringo claims that it is our stuff that God wants us to spread among all people (like good little socialists.)
It has nothing to do with heart and soul. Jesus said to SELL what you have and give to the poor. How can you even suggest that He wanted you to sell your heart and soul? (And why would the poor want your heart and soul?)
And Jesus was a good little socialist, so you can stop spitting on Him any time.
Phat writes:
Of course, I disagree with his assessment that a true Christian needs to give up all materialistic gain of himself and spread it among the people.
You're disagreeing with Jesus.
Phat writes:
Likely, ringo was influenced by Mennonite teaching...
Not at all. Do you know anything about Mennonite teaching?
Phat writes:
He uses this excuse to defend why he himself need not give it all up.
It's not an excuse. It's a reason. It's the same reason why you don't pay taxes to Narnia - but you're too stupid to understand that.
Phat writes:
In other words, ringo tries to play both sides of the argument.
I don't play both sides. I only play the side of people who don't believe in Jesus.
I'll ask you one more time: Why would I do what a fictional character tells me to do? And why WOULDN'T you do it if you really believed that character was real?
At least ANSWER the fucking questions, for once.
There's no playing two sides of the argument. There's only you being too stupid to understand the argument.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 776 by Phat, posted 11-02-2022 10:54 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 812 by Phat, posted 11-05-2022 1:35 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 785 of 1864 (900938)
11-02-2022 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 777 by candle2
11-02-2022 11:23 AM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
candle2 writes:
Phat, Melchisedec is the same individual as Jesus
Christ.

This is just one more example of Jesus' prior existence
before allowing Himself to be born as a human.

People run from passages that they have no answer for.
Nobody's "running". Your interpretation of Hebrews7 is nonsense. Melchizedek was an Old Testament king, nothing to do with Jesus.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 777 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 11:23 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 794 by candle2, posted 11-03-2022 5:13 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 786 of 1864 (900940)
11-02-2022 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 778 by candle2
11-02-2022 11:29 AM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
candle2 writes:
Ringo, if Jesus never existed before His human birth,
why did He say this in John 17:5

"And now, 0 Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
A human does not exist before it is born.
If Jesus claimed to have existed before He was born:
1. He was not human - which shoots down a lot of Christian doctrines.
or
2. He was using a figure of speech.
or
3. John was mistaken about what He said.
or
etc...
The one explanation that does NOT work is that He existed before He existed.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 11:29 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 800 by Phat, posted 11-04-2022 11:15 AM ringo has replied
 Message 821 by candle2, posted 11-05-2022 12:27 PM ringo has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 787 of 1864 (900950)
11-02-2022 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 779 by Taq
11-02-2022 1:27 PM


Re: Simplistically Speaking
Taq, I am 69 years old, and I know with crystal clarity
when gas prices started up.
In Murray, KY, I was paying $1.60 per gallon when Trump
left office.
When Russia invaded Ukraine gas was already over $4.00
per gallon.
The cost of food and others necessities increased at or
near the same rate.
When Trump left office America was producing enough
oil to supply all our needs, as well as exporting to our
allies.
The very first day Biden was in office he stopped the
pipeline from transporting oil, even though trucking it
would be two to three times more costly.
His administration began to place numerous and
costly restrictions on American companies who
had leases to drill on federal land.
He made it too costly for them to and make a profit,
which is what the Democrats wanted.
At the same time Biden encouraged the building of a
gas pipeline from Russia to Western Europe, which
forced them to rely on Russia for their energy.
We could have provided them with this energy.
Europe is in one heck of an energy crisis. They are
reverting back to coal for much of their energy. Coal
is not as environmentally clean as petroleum.
You are being dishonest in that you lived through the
past two years yourself. You know when gas prices
began to rise. It was the day Biden took office.
We are deleting our supply of diesel fuel. And while
we are running low, Biden is still exporting over one
million barrels of diesel daily.
Where were you at when the Democrats were having
their presidental Debates? Were you even paying
attention?
Every one of the stated on numerous occasions that
they would phase out fossil fuel.
Everyone of the also stated, and strongly, their support
for socialism.
Either the Democratic leaders are the most incompetent
leaders in the world, or they are breaking America down
In order to gain complete control.
The pandemic was vastly overated. The Flu is more
deadly.
It was simply a tool used by the left.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 779 by Taq, posted 11-02-2022 1:27 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 789 by ringo, posted 11-02-2022 9:57 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 792 by Taq, posted 11-03-2022 10:59 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 811 by dwise1, posted 11-04-2022 8:00 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 788 of 1864 (900953)
11-02-2022 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 780 by Taq
11-02-2022 1:33 PM


Re: Simplistically Speaking
The Dixiecrats were Democrats. Besides Strom
Thurmond one other Dixiecrat might have done so.
However, Strom did not switch until the mid 60s. By
that time he did not have the same rhetoric
Does Robert Byrd Ring a bell. Also look into Biden's
pass.
Understand one thing, the majority of Dixiecrats did
not leave the Democratic Party.
More Republicans voted for the CRA than did Democrats.
The main objections came from the Dixiecrat Democrats.
The Democrats were responsible for taking land from
Native Americans.
They were responsible for giving Smallpox infected
blankets to then.
They were the party of slavery; Jim Crow; poll taxes;
lynchings; and, segregation.
They are the party of the internment ID Japanese
Americans during WW2.
They are also the proud parents of the KKK, and
re-emergence of the KKK.
The KKK was the terrorist wing of the Democratic
Party.
Many of America's worse cities for blacks are controlled
by Democrats, and have been for decades.
These cities have been controlled by Democratic mayor's,
and councilmen. They are the ones responsible for the
lives of those they serve.
But, they have failed them miserably. This is Even after
receiving trillions in assistance.
The lives of these blacks are a result of the Democrats
over them. Nothing more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by Taq, posted 11-02-2022 1:33 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 791 by Phat, posted 11-03-2022 7:42 AM candle2 has replied
 Message 825 by Taq, posted 11-07-2022 10:59 AM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 789 of 1864 (900957)
11-02-2022 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 787 by candle2
11-02-2022 5:38 PM


Re: Simplistically Speaking
candle2 writes:
When Trump left office America was producing enough
oil to supply all our needs, as well as exporting to our
allies.
Then why did Trump resurrect the pipeline to bring more oil from Canada?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 787 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 5:38 PM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 790 by dwise1, posted 11-02-2022 11:19 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 790 of 1864 (900958)
11-02-2022 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 789 by ringo
11-02-2022 9:57 PM


Re: Simplistically Speaking
Then why did Trump resurrect the pipeline to bring more oil from Canada?
In order to export that oil to the rest of the world, but not to the USA.
Nu? (of course he doesn't know any Yiddish. He is clearly not a Mensch (ie, a human)
)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 789 by ringo, posted 11-02-2022 9:57 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 791 of 1864 (900964)
11-03-2022 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 788 by candle2
11-02-2022 7:34 PM


Re: Simplistically Speaking
Candle, this line of reasoning is emotionally driven and not very honest. Dwise1 has already explained how parties change over time. Your irrational focus on the Democrats as the party of evil sounds as irrational as some critics' insistence that Republicans are the real villain and we would be better off without them.
Both sides sling mud based on emotional overreaction. I suggest that we approach politics rationally or not at all.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 788 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 7:34 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 798 by candle2, posted 11-04-2022 9:42 AM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 792 of 1864 (900981)
11-03-2022 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 787 by candle2
11-02-2022 5:38 PM


Re: Simplistically Speaking
candle2 writes:
Taq, I am 69 years old, and I know with crystal clarity
when gas prices started up.

In Murray, KY, I was paying $1.60 per gallon when Trump
left office.
When Russia invaded Ukraine gas was already over $4.00
per gallon.
Ummm, no. In Febuarary 2022, before the invasion of Ukrain, gas prices were around $3.50.
AAA Gas Prices
Prices were at that price because of a world wide shortage of oil, even at that point. The invasion of Ukraine worsened that shortage. What do you want Biden to do, force other countries to produce more oil? The US is already a net exporter of oil. This has been true for Biden's entire term. We produce more oil than we consume.
When Trump left office America was producing enough
oil to supply all our needs, as well as exporting to our
allies.
We never produced enough oil to supply ourselves and all of our allies. Never.
The very first day Biden was in office he stopped the
pipeline from transporting oil, even though trucking it
would be two to three times more costly.
What active pipeline did Biden stop?
His administration began to place numerous and
costly restrictions on American companies who
had leases to drill on federal land.
We were already a net exporter.
He made it too costly for them to and make a profit,
which is what the Democrats wanted.

At the same time Biden encouraged the building of a
gas pipeline from Russia to Western Europe, which
forced them to rely on Russia for their energy.

We could have provided them with this energy.
Yet more bare assertions with no facts to back them up.
Everyone of the also stated, and strongly, their support
for socialism.
Republicans also strong stated their support of socialism in the form of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA system of hospitals, and numerous other social programs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 787 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 5:38 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 793 of 1864 (901018)
11-03-2022 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 781 by ringo
11-02-2022 3:15 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Ringo, you said that it would be a tall order to force you.
Maybe, maybe not, but it won't take much to make you
look foolish.
You replied that Hebrews 7: 3 was merely a figure of
speech.
If Melchisedec had always existed, if He were without
parents, and, if he would live forever, there is no clearer
or more precise way to say this than:
3. "Without father, without mother, without descent,
having neither beginning of days, nor end of life..."
This is plain enough for a second grader to understand
quite easily.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 781 by ringo, posted 11-02-2022 3:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 806 by ringo, posted 11-04-2022 12:55 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 794 of 1864 (901019)
11-03-2022 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 785 by ringo
11-02-2022 3:36 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Ringo, you admit that the 70 elders in Exodus 24 saw God.
Moses saw God face to face.
Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake with Moses face to
face, as a man speaker unto his friend."
Moses stayed with God for 40 days.
In order for Moses and all others who saw God in the OT
God had to take on a physical body.
How do we know this?
In Exodus 33 Moses asked to see God in all His glory
verses 18.
Verse 20 "And He said (God) "Thou canst not see my
face: for there shall no man see me and live."
But God put Moses in the cleft of a rock and covered
Moses' eyes until He (God) had passed by him.
Verse 23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thou
shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
More than 100 people saw God in the OT.
But, the God they saw was Jesus.
John 1:18 "No man has seen God at anytime ; the only
begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He
has declared (made known) him."
Speaking of His Father Jesus stated:
John 5:37 "And the Father Himself, which has sent me,
has borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard His
voice at any time, nor seen His shape."
John 6:46 Jesus said "Not that any man has seen the
Father, save He which is of God, He has seen the Father.
John 17:25-26 "O righteous Father, the world has not
known thee: but I have known thee, and these have
known that thou has sent me. And I have declared unto
them thy name..."
Since it is clear that no one in history has ever seen God
the Father, but a number of people have seen God, then
The God that they saw was Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 785 by ringo, posted 11-02-2022 3:36 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 802 by ringo, posted 11-04-2022 12:07 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 795 of 1864 (901028)
11-03-2022 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 781 by ringo
11-02-2022 3:15 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
In Revelations 19:13 John says that Jesus is the Word of
God.
"And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and
His name is called '"The WORD OF God.'"
In Revelations 22:13 Jesus said "I am Alpha and Omega,
the beginning and the end, the first a day the last."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 781 by ringo, posted 11-02-2022 3:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 803 by ringo, posted 11-04-2022 12:21 PM candle2 has not replied

  
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