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Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Not exactly. I say that IF God is the creator of all thiungs seen and unseen, as Phat claims, then He created evil as well as good.
Ringo, you say that God created everything. candle2 writes:
That's a tall order. But take your best shot.
I am going to force you... candle2 writes:
"King of Salem, priest of the most high God." (verse 1.)
Who is Melchisedec in Hebrews 7. candle2 writes:
That would be a figure of speech. He is without father,without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
"The God of Israel." Ringo, Exodus 24: 9-10 "Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel:..." Who did they see? This is pretty easy so far.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Apparently that was written before it was decided that there was only one god. Ringo, who was speaking to whom in Genesis 3:23? "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us..." Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have challenged you to show ANYWHERE that the word "word" refers to anything but words. You have failed utterly to come up with anything.
Jesus was in the beginning with God and was God. Ringo disagrees and claims that in the beginning was the Word (message)... Phat writes:
You should be ashamed of yourself, calling what Jesus said a "perversion".
... which ringo has perverted into a socialist ideal. Phat writes:
It's not an "assertion". It IS what Jesus is reported to have said. The disciples understood it. The early church understood it. Even YOU claim to understand it once in a while.
He defends his assertion by claiming that Jesus told us to give it all up. Phat writes:
It has nothing to do with heart and soul. Jesus said to SELL what you have and give to the poor. How can you even suggest that He wanted you to sell your heart and soul? (And why would the poor want your heart and soul?) I finally agreed with him in that we are to give up all of our heart and mind to the Lord, but ringo claims that it is our stuff that God wants us to spread among all people (like good little socialists.) And Jesus was a good little socialist, so you can stop spitting on Him any time.
Phat writes:
You're disagreeing with Jesus.
Of course, I disagree with his assessment that a true Christian needs to give up all materialistic gain of himself and spread it among the people. Phat writes:
Not at all. Do you know anything about Mennonite teaching?
Likely, ringo was influenced by Mennonite teaching... Phat writes:
It's not an excuse. It's a reason. It's the same reason why you don't pay taxes to Narnia - but you're too stupid to understand that.
He uses this excuse to defend why he himself need not give it all up. Phat writes:
I don't play both sides. I only play the side of people who don't believe in Jesus. In other words, ringo tries to play both sides of the argument. I'll ask you one more time: Why would I do what a fictional character tells me to do? And why WOULDN'T you do it if you really believed that character was real? At least ANSWER the fucking questions, for once. There's no playing two sides of the argument. There's only you being too stupid to understand the argument.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Nobody's "running". Your interpretation of Hebrews7 is nonsense. Melchizedek was an Old Testament king, nothing to do with Jesus. Phat, Melchisedec is the same individual as JesusChrist. This is just one more example of Jesus' prior existence before allowing Himself to be born as a human. People run from passages that they have no answer for. Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
A human does not exist before it is born. Ringo, if Jesus never existed before His human birth,why did He say this in John 17:5 "And now, 0 Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." If Jesus claimed to have existed before He was born:1. He was not human - which shoots down a lot of Christian doctrines. or 2. He was using a figure of speech. or 3. John was mistaken about what He said. or etc... The one explanation that does NOT work is that He existed before He existed.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Taq, I am 69 years old, and I know with crystal clarity
when gas prices started up. In Murray, KY, I was paying $1.60 per gallon when Trumpleft office. When Russia invaded Ukraine gas was already over $4.00per gallon. The cost of food and others necessities increased at ornear the same rate. When Trump left office America was producing enoughoil to supply all our needs, as well as exporting to our allies. The very first day Biden was in office he stopped thepipeline from transporting oil, even though trucking it would be two to three times more costly. His administration began to place numerous andcostly restrictions on American companies who had leases to drill on federal land. He made it too costly for them to and make a profit,which is what the Democrats wanted. At the same time Biden encouraged the building of agas pipeline from Russia to Western Europe, which forced them to rely on Russia for their energy. We could have provided them with this energy. Europe is in one heck of an energy crisis. They arereverting back to coal for much of their energy. Coal is not as environmentally clean as petroleum. You are being dishonest in that you lived through thepast two years yourself. You know when gas prices began to rise. It was the day Biden took office. We are deleting our supply of diesel fuel. And whilewe are running low, Biden is still exporting over one million barrels of diesel daily. Where were you at when the Democrats were havingtheir presidental Debates? Were you even paying attention? Every one of the stated on numerous occasions thatthey would phase out fossil fuel. Everyone of the also stated, and strongly, their supportfor socialism. Either the Democratic leaders are the most incompetentleaders in the world, or they are breaking America down In order to gain complete control. The pandemic was vastly overated. The Flu is moredeadly. It was simply a tool used by the left.
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
The Dixiecrats were Democrats. Besides Strom
Thurmond one other Dixiecrat might have done so. However, Strom did not switch until the mid 60s. By that time he did not have the same rhetoric Does Robert Byrd Ring a bell. Also look into Biden'spass. Understand one thing, the majority of Dixiecrats didnot leave the Democratic Party. More Republicans voted for the CRA than did Democrats.The main objections came from the Dixiecrat Democrats. The Democrats were responsible for taking land fromNative Americans. They were responsible for giving Smallpox infectedblankets to then. They were the party of slavery; Jim Crow; poll taxes;lynchings; and, segregation. They are the party of the internment ID JapaneseAmericans during WW2. They are also the proud parents of the KKK, andre-emergence of the KKK. The KKK was the terrorist wing of the DemocraticParty. Many of America's worse cities for blacks are controlledby Democrats, and have been for decades. These cities have been controlled by Democratic mayor's,and councilmen. They are the ones responsible for the lives of those they serve. But, they have failed them miserably. This is Even afterreceiving trillions in assistance. The lives of these blacks are a result of the Democratsover them. Nothing more.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Then why did Trump resurrect the pipeline to bring more oil from Canada? When Trump left office America was producing enoughoil to supply all our needs, as well as exporting to our allies. Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Then why did Trump resurrect the pipeline to bring more oil from Canada? In order to export that oil to the rest of the world, but not to the USA. Nu? (of course he doesn't know any Yiddish. He is clearly not a Mensch (ie, a human) )
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Phat Member Posts: 18353 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Candle, this line of reasoning is emotionally driven and not very honest. Dwise1 has already explained how parties change over time. Your irrational focus on the Democrats as the party of evil sounds as irrational as some critics' insistence that Republicans are the real villain and we would be better off without them.
Both sides sling mud based on emotional overreaction. I suggest that we approach politics rationally or not at all."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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candle2 writes:
Taq, I am 69 years old, and I know with crystal claritywhen gas prices started up. In Murray, KY, I was paying $1.60 per gallon when Trump left office. When Russia invaded Ukraine gas was already over $4.00per gallon. Ummm, no. In Febuarary 2022, before the invasion of Ukrain, gas prices were around $3.50. AAA Gas Prices Prices were at that price because of a world wide shortage of oil, even at that point. The invasion of Ukraine worsened that shortage. What do you want Biden to do, force other countries to produce more oil? The US is already a net exporter of oil. This has been true for Biden's entire term. We produce more oil than we consume.
When Trump left office America was producing enough oil to supply all our needs, as well as exporting to our allies. We never produced enough oil to supply ourselves and all of our allies. Never.
The very first day Biden was in office he stopped the pipeline from transporting oil, even though trucking it would be two to three times more costly. What active pipeline did Biden stop?
His administration began to place numerous and costly restrictions on American companies who had leases to drill on federal land. We were already a net exporter.
He made it too costly for them to and make a profit, which is what the Democrats wanted. At the same time Biden encouraged the building of a gas pipeline from Russia to Western Europe, which forced them to rely on Russia for their energy. We could have provided them with this energy. Yet more bare assertions with no facts to back them up.
Everyone of the also stated, and strongly, their support for socialism. Republicans also strong stated their support of socialism in the form of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA system of hospitals, and numerous other social programs.
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Ringo, you said that it would be a tall order to force you.
Maybe, maybe not, but it won't take much to make you look foolish. You replied that Hebrews 7: 3 was merely a figure ofspeech. If Melchisedec had always existed, if He were withoutparents, and, if he would live forever, there is no clearer or more precise way to say this than: 3. "Without father, without mother, without descent,having neither beginning of days, nor end of life..." This is plain enough for a second grader to understandquite easily.
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2
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Ringo, you admit that the 70 elders in Exodus 24 saw God.
Moses saw God face to face. Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake with Moses face toface, as a man speaker unto his friend." Moses stayed with God for 40 days. In order for Moses and all others who saw God in the OTGod had to take on a physical body. How do we know this? In Exodus 33 Moses asked to see God in all His gloryverses 18. Verse 20 "And He said (God) "Thou canst not see myface: for there shall no man see me and live." But God put Moses in the cleft of a rock and coveredMoses' eyes until He (God) had passed by him. Verse 23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thoushalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. More than 100 people saw God in the OT. But, the God they saw was Jesus. John 1:18 "No man has seen God at anytime ; the onlybegotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared (made known) him." Speaking of His Father Jesus stated: John 5:37 "And the Father Himself, which has sent me,has borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape." John 6:46 Jesus said "Not that any man has seen theFather, save He which is of God, He has seen the Father. John 17:25-26 "O righteous Father, the world has notknown thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou has sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name..." Since it is clear that no one in history has ever seen Godthe Father, but a number of people have seen God, then The God that they saw was Jesus.
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
In Revelations 19:13 John says that Jesus is the Word of
God. "And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: andHis name is called '"The WORD OF God.'" In Revelations 22:13 Jesus said "I am Alpha and Omega,the beginning and the end, the first a day the last."
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