A question that was first presented by Socrates.

MTWListen Mike if god cannot lead by example perhaps he should not make the rules.

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"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place."

Well, according to the Bible, one made in His image; one with a god's knowledge of good and evil.You disagree, perhaps, that the Bible makes these claims?

The bible also claims that which I quoted about the carnal mind. Infact, that is a reason that we ALL THE MORE cannot judge God, because we sinned against him, eating of that tree --> ACCORDING to the bible. Also, are knowlege of good and evil is not equal to God, there is none else beside him. His thouhts are higher than ours, Isaiah.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 09-26-2004 02:27 PM

Nice try, but God's example is Christ - a life without sin.

That doesn't matter, though. God is very clear when he says that we are as gods, knowing good from evil - and he says that after the sin, so clearly, the sin doesn't matter.According to God, we have the same ability to judge good and evil as he does. The Bible couldn't be clearer on the subject. Your interpretation simply isn't Biblical. Sorry, God says differently, and I'm going to believe him, not you.Look, your position is simply paradoxical. If sin keeps us from having god's knowledge of good and evil, but that sin was gaining god's knowledge of good and evil, then there can't have been a sin. But if we didn't sin, then we have god's knowledge of good and evil, which is a sin. But if we sinned, then we don't have god's knowledge of good and evil. But if we don't, then we didn't sin, and so we have god's knowledge of good and evil...Around and around you go, Mike. Your position is contradicted by the Bible, and moreover, doesn't make any fuckin' sense.This message has been edited by crashfrog, 09-26-2004 02:35 PM

MTW Yes but he created them and the tree so perhaps he should not bitch about that which was in his power to prevent.We did not sin Adam and Eve did .We have no evidence that anyone else in the same position would do so.

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"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place."

MTWOk but god did killing in the days before christ so the point still stands.God covets{thou shalt have no other gods before me}God commits adultery through the holy spirit upon Mary.Where does it end?

Sin doesn't matter? And you expect me to think you have the interpretation thereof? Our whole faith is because of forgiveness of sins. THAT is biblical. My interpretation? I don't have one. The spirit of prophecy is that the Holy SPirit prophecies through men, and interpretation is from the Spirit. But let's see what God says, and whether he thinks you - the carnal man, have the correct interpretation thereof; Woe unto him that striveth with his maker....Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?Are not you also saying that God doesn't exist? So you think God's thoughts are equal to ours and God says the same? Let's see what he says; For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughtsShut up your ears real tight Crash, and curse at me.More concerning the carnal man, you; For to be carnally minded is death; But to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against GodYou are against God - even he says it! And you say that those with the Spirit don't have the interpretation?This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 09-26-2004 02:53 PM

Not in regards to our ability to determine good from evil, or else, God wouldn't have said that we have become like gods, knowing good from evil, after we had sinned, now would he?This point is so staggeringly obvious that I don't see how you can miss it. Of course you do. Don't get smart. Then why bother with the Bible? Why even bring it up if you're not basing your beliefs on it? Yes:

quote:

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Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil;

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It doesn't get any clearer than that. That's right at the beginning, where the important stuff is. Open your eyes, use your mind, Mike, and see.

You have ignored my Biblical quotes. It is carnal thought to think you are equal to God, and the bible says you are not. Nor will you ever be.Yes, I agree with Genesis, just not you;" Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; "Likewise, Einstein knows good and evil like Mike, but is Einsteins thought higher than Mike's? Silence please - I really want to hear Crash's answer.Just because we are as God, in that we know good and evil, it doesn't mean we are equal to him in our knowledge of it. It just means that like him, we know good and evil,. but we certainly can see, that God's knowledge in any subject, would far outdo ours, like that BIBLICAL quote I provided --> SAID.Likewise, if I get a motorbike, 100cc, then mike has become like a 500cc bike rider - being able to ride fast and slow, but does that mean I have the same velocity as the 500cc rider? I trow not. No thanks man of carnal interpretations. Even satan tempted Christ.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 09-26-2004 03:02 PM

Well, you didn't cite them, for one thing, so how do I know that those quotes are from God and not some other character in the Bible?My quote is from the LORD God, directly, and it's at the beginning, so it trumps yours. On the subject of good and evil? Here's Einstein's words:

quote:

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"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish."

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So, apparently not. Remember that that's the specific subject we're talking about - knowledge of good and evil. In regards to knowledge of, say, the finer points of chess, I'll freely admit that God has me blown out of the water.Specifically, in regards to good and evil, I have the same ability God has. God says so, directly, in the Bible. But God says we do. He says our knowledge of good and evil is the same as His; "like gods, knowing good and evil." If it wasn't as good as God's, then how could it be like God's?

quote:

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"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, scince for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once." - Albert Einstein

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This message has been edited by crashfrog, 09-26-2004 03:13 PM

ALL these sayings are biblically based Crash, even you can trace them yourself, yet you make out that a carnal mind has the interpretation thereof, despite your interpretations being of the world, and of your own thoughts.But the bible speaks against you completely, and all my posts are littered with it's teachings, and you may even unwittingly read. And your audacity is to say that God agrees with you, a carnal man, who says God doesn't exist, and that you are equal to him. Despite him saying you know only that of the world and the natural - BECAUSE YOU ARE THE NATURAL MAN according to the BIBLE> duh!And now you say my bible quotes are not like yours. That's the lamest argument I've ever heard on this site. We can all see your Genesis quote, but I'm afraid repeating it's interpretation according to Crash doesn't trump my analogy. I can ride fast and slow as a 500cc rider can, but is my velocity the same as his? Or is his higher? Answer the question.Also, the bible quotes where from Isaiah, whom had the Holy Spirit of God. Didn't you know? We count all the bible as God's word, not just the quotes that suit Crash's argument.Einstein said that before God, we are equally wise and foolish. But he doesn't say that we are equal to God If we are equal to God in good and evil, why do we disagree about him being good and evil, concerning his biblical acts? Which one of us has the knowledge that correlates with Gods? Our disagreemant shows that our knowledge differs, that one of us must be wrong, and therefore - man in general, cannot be equal to God, logically.Who is equal, you or me? If we disagree, then we obviously logically rule out the possibility of being on par with God.

My interpretation is based on the Bible. You, apparently, base yours on spirits or something. I'd say I've provided a considerably better Biblical base for my position than you have for yours. After all I'm not the one in direct opposition to the Word of God. Hey, in regards to the knowledge of good and evil, I've already substantiated that I'm just taking God's word for it. He's the one that said I'm his equal in regards to knowledge of good and evil, not me. I'm just repeating it. But Isaiah is not God. God is God. Why should I take Isaiah's word over God's Holy Words? But not all the Bible is spoken by God. In regards to what God has said, why don't we just stick with what God actually said? That's not why I offered that quote. You tried to suggest that Einstein was a superior authority on good and evil; I merely showed that even Einstein himself disagrees. Can we be in error about good and evil things? Surely. But, since we know we're equal to God in the knowledge of good and evil, we know that God's knowledge of good and evil must be like ours - therefore, God must be capable of error in regards to good and evil. Unless God has stated that we are, and in regards to good and evil, he has. He's directly said that, Mike. He did. Therefore, it must be true. Both of us. We're both equal. Any one of us - you, me, or God - could be in error in regards to good and evil. That's a direct consequence of God's will.

Mike, I'm confused. Could you give a direct answer to the question again?Is a thing good because god says it's good or does god says it's good because it is good?

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The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

So am I. Infact, if Moses writes what God says, and Isaiah writes what God says, why is only Moses right according to Crash? Why? Because Crash has ignored the quote I provided from Isaiah, saying that God's thoughts are higher than ours. But let's see if God says we are equal to him in the knowledge of good and evil; Erm, yes - I agree God, we know good and we know evil, but does that mean we are equal in our knowledge of it to God? Where exactly does it say we are equal Crash?Now Christ says only one is good, God. So, how can you be biblically accurate by saying; " therefore, God must be capable of error in regards to good and evil. "So, I either believe Christ, who says our Father in heaven is perfect, and [the only] good one, or I believe Crash who says; Well, let me se, shall I just repeat what God says about you; Woe unto him that striveth with his maker....Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughtsFor to be carnally minded is death; But to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against GodFurthermore, how can anyone who doesn't even believe in God, think he has the interpretation from Jews who did believe? They themselves wrote the OT, and it says those things also about God's thoughts being higher. So, the bible certainly disagrees with you, but I'll repeat it just incase you miss it again: For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughtsSo there it is, Christ - Moses and Isaiah, all agree that God is higher, and that he is good [only him]. How can you still say you have the biblical interpretation when Isaiah and Christ both say God is higher and perfect and [the only] good one?I can ride fast and slow as a 500cc rider can, but is my velocity the same as his? Or is his higher? Answer the question.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 09-26-2004 07:15 PM