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Author | Topic: What is a True Christian? | |||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Thank you for that link. I expressed myself incorrectly due to my ignorance on the subject with Jehovah witness.
I did some studying of it, instead of just taking someone's word for it. It was expressed to me correctly, but I mis-interpreted it. The Holy spirit you believe in is not the same one I believe in. You do not think the Holy Spirit is a person, just an active force. Not part of the trinity. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jehovah witnesses do not believe that the Holy Spirit dwells inside them.Also, if you were to visit my church, and your "elders" found out, you would be expelled from your religion? Your own doctrine from that link contradicts itself IMO.
JESUS spoke of the holy spirit as a "helper," and he said it would teach, guide, and speak. (John 14:16, 26; 16:13) The Greek word he used for helper (para'kletos) is in the masculine gender. So when Jesus referred to what the helper would do, he used masculine personal pronouns. (John 16:7, 8) On the other hand, when the neuter Greek word for spirit (pneu'ma) is used, the neuter pronoun "it" is properly employed.
So its not a person because its masculine?A helper to me sounds like a person. Someone who teaches, guides, and speaks, sounds like a person to me. I can tell you from my own personal experience, that the Holy Spirit dwells inside me. It guides me through most of my life. The only time it doesn't is when I take control of my own life. When I am not performing God's will. (I never said I was perfect, I just do the best I can). This all pertains to the topic, as it helps define what a True Christian is. Also, do you consider Jesus Christ, Lord?
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wmscott Member (Idle past 6277 days) Posts: 580 From: Sussex, WI USA Joined: |
Dear Riverrat;
quote:Correct, there is no Trinity, it is not a biblical doctrine. Here is a link to a post I made on it, http://EvC Forum: Jesus/God the same? -->EvC Forum: Jesus/God the same? see post 14. That is the difference between our viewpoints on the holy spirit, the Trinity is a post biblical doctrine which is why it isn't taught or explained in the Bible. The holy spirit is God's power or influence, it is how he does things, so of course it has abilities like a being since God is behind it directing it. On the dwelling of the holy spirit, (1 Corinthians 3:16) "Do YOU not know that YOU people are God's temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in YOU?" so yes we do. No I would not visit your church unless it was to give a talk on something like finding true Christianity. To just simply attend your church would be practicing interfaith, or becoming yoked or forming a connection with your religion which would be wrong since it is in conflict with what the Bible teaches on points such as the Trinity. (2 Corinthians 6:14-17) "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God's temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: "I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people." "'Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,' says Jehovah, 'and quit touching the unclean thing'"; "'and I will take YOU in.'"" The biblical command is clear in this verse, true Christians can not be joining themselves to religions that claim to be christian but fail to follow the Word of god. As a true Christian it is my endeavor for you to join me in the truth and not for me to join you in your religion. quote:No, it is not a contradiction, it is a grammar thing. It is God's spirit and he is referred to in the masculine gender so the spirit is too. Plus many things that are not persons are referred to in genders such as 'she is fine ship and handles the waves well'. The personification of the holy spirit as a person is just done to fill out what would otherwise be the third empty seat in the Trinity doctrine, remove the Trinity and there is no need to see the holy spirit as a person. quote:I find in talking to members of the many conflicting christian religions in existence today, that when you show them that what they belive is in conflict with scripture, they almost always fall back on an emotional response, "I know what I believe is right because I am born a again" or "I felt the power of the holy spirit". While true Christianity is backed by scripture. (2 Timothy 3:16-17) "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." I don't believe anything that can't be logically supported by scriptures, don't make the mistake of supporting your beliefs on a feeling or personal belief. I have seen many make this mistake and it is a big reason why there are so many conflicting religions that claim to be christian. quote:Of course. Have to go pack my bags, I'll reply to your next post when I get back. Wm. Scott Anderson
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Petra Inactive Member |
Sorry this reply came a bit late. I've been busy this week. Let's see...
quote:Matthew 7:1-2 JUDGE not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. Jesus spoke to his disciples inLuke 6:37-38 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you." 1 1 Corinthians 4:5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God. quote: I don't know if God will even look at the minor differences we find so significant, such as creationism or evolution.
quote: You are very right about that one! I must sadly conclude that even on Christian forums, there is a lot of mud slinging. I'll try not to do so. I don't like it, that's for sure.
quote: Maybe it just shows that he/she is only human. When you are a Christian, and you behave like that, God will let you know it's not approved of. He'll do so through his Word, of maybe He'll allow something to occur in that person's life to put his attention to that wrong behaviour. That way the person can change it.If that person is really a true christian, he/she will change it. The bible says this about certain behaviour:Ephesians 4:29-32 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 5:3-5But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know,* that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Ephesians 5:8-10For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit* is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. What could happen if you don't?Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. quote:Yeah, I would. quote:See verses above. That's a small part of christlike behaviour. You can find a lot about what Christlike behaviour is in the bible. Must non-believers know exactly what kinda behaviour that is hence they always know exactly when a Christian does something he/she is not supposed to do. Thank you for your time. 1Cor 1:25 "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
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Petra Inactive Member |
please read my quote again
it contains the answer to your question. A Christian can claim another is not a true Christian, so what? He/she is only human. 1Cor 1:25 "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
I don't feel the scripture from Matthew and Luke really says don't ever judge, but instead how you judge others is how you will be judged. Along the lines of "if you don't want something done to you, then don't do it to others."
In reality we have to make judgments about people everyday or at least every other day. I have to judge whether someone is lying to me or not. I have to judge whether someone is trustworthy or not. But, if I make these judgments superficially, then that is how I will be judged.
quote: It is not for the purpose of saying "Oh you did something wrong." It is more to the point of, if this person responds in this manner are they really a Christian? Can I trust what they are saying concerning scripture or anything else pertaining to Christianity?
quote:Making mistakes is human, but I don't agree that being human is an excuse for bad behavior. I have met people who don't have Christ in their life who have shown better Christlike behavior than I have seen in some Christians. quote: Yes, the Bible does say alot about behavior, but unfortunately many Christians don't like to be held accountable to their own standards. That's why I asked what is considered to be Christlike behavior. I know what is in the Bible, but is that what Christians on this thread consider to be Christlike? A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
I thought the Father seeks people to worship him in spirit and in truth, I just find it interesting if speaking in an unknown tongue according to Paul edifies one's spirit, not the church, is part of worshipping the Father, cause it edifies the believer, etc...In truth cause your worshipping the Father in the spirit, (in the spirit of truth), etc...
P.S. Too me its quite awesome that without saying a prayer in words you understand, you can be worshipping God, and be edified within your spirit, cause your worshipping The Father. If your saying repetitive prayers and are not being edified in ones spirit, you might consider how the illiterate believers were edified by the gift of tongues(Paul himself said he didn't understand the words(saying how would this edify the church), (but was edified in his spirit, so its to the edifying of the person), and its interesting how it pleased God that by the foolishness of the preaching of the gospel to save them that believe, because by the wisdom of this world they believed not, etc...I enjoy the fundementalists too, cause they are edifying the church(enjoy listening to Pastor Cole, etc...) but feel its the Charasmatics that about the edifying of the person, in the gift of tongues, etc...If your a true worshipper, in the spirit, its not how perfect one forms their prayers but it might well be the worship in words one doesn't even understand, cause your worshipping God in the spirit and your bypassing your mind and worshipping in the spirit of truth, but what I find interesting is that the believer is spiritually edified, etc... Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. Joh 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I do believe that the bible teaches us nothing of religion, only Gods word, so how could it tell you in its scriptures about going to someone else's church. If its Christian, its ok. You don't have to like it.
No, it is not a contradiction, it is a grammar thing. It is God's spirit and he is referred to in the masculine gender so the spirit is too. Plus many things that are not persons are referred to in genders such as 'she is fine ship and handles the waves well'. The personification of the holy spirit as a person is just done to fill out what would otherwise be the third empty seat in the Trinity doctrine, remove the Trinity and there is no need to see the holy spirit as a person.
Thats your interpretation of it. The Holy Spirit was also called a counseler. Sounds more and more like a person. Either way its not really that important that you feel as though he's not a person. Its that you don't have him in you. (maybe not you but most Jehovah witnesses I've meet). If my wife would have listened to your teachings, my step child would have never recieved a blood transfusion when he was born, and died. Now he is alive and well, and is in the spirit. A jehovah witness would have rather witnessed his death. Now Jesus is Lord, go back 20 years and see if the Jehovah witnesses thought Jesus was Lord.I know a secret. Your doctrines were changed by a spirit filled christian, so that Jesus could become Lord. Enjoy your trip.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I think asgara's point was, though, that if people can be filled with a demon spirit and completely believe that it is the holy spirit, then it doesn't matter how "careful" an individual is, right? When you think you are checking in with God, maybe you are checking in with the demon. How do you know it's God and not a demon that is making you think it's god?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: No, I have never seen this ever in my life. Maybe because I don't go to bars much, and I certainly don't have any atheist friends who are in the habit of getting drunk at bars nor do they carry knives. If you think that atheists are more prone to crazy drunken violence, then why are the prisons filled with Christians and other believers instead of non-believers?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Because you fear death?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
By knowing Gods word.
I can't really answer that completely. I don't know what it is like to be demon spirit filled. For myself it is obvious, but for others I cannot answer.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Wow did you miss the bus on that one.
You think that all athiest do not fight then, is that your claim?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I can't wait to die now.
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Unseul Inactive Member |
I think that sort of explains what Schraf was getting at. You have convinced yourself that the end doesnt ever come, fear of that end may well be what drove you to find that explaination (you'd be surprised at how many people who say they dont believe in god still believe in an afterlife of some sort)
Unseul Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.... Do unto others before they do unto you.
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
I see the fundementalists, Charasmatics different parts of the church that Peter built, cause of the faith in Christ.
P.S. The bible says greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world, so if greater is he in you, then your a temple of the Holy Spirit, but it says many gifts, same spirit, etc,... I agree though with all this about letting Jesus into your heart, your kinda putting the cart ahead of the horse, cause you come to Christ for forgiveness, and its the Father that sends the Holy Ghost in his Son's name. The apostles found some that believed didn't recieve the baptism of the Holy Ghost, even though they believed and was baptised in Water, but needed the laying on of hands, etc... I see the verse saying that Christ is come in the flesh, so feel your one in spirit, through Christ, so no one can come to the Father in Spirit unless they are born of the Holy Spirit, and that speaking in tongues is one of the spiritual gifts, some recieve the gift of preaching, teaching, prophecy, so love all the Christian brethren that are all one in the Spirit through Christ, to the edifying of the brethren church, but believe that the Holy Spirit also is the comforter and this is what makes it interesting about the comforting of the believer, in the edification of the believer in those that recieve the gift of tongues. I feel when believers come together God is there too, cause where two or more are gathered together in his name their he is, so were back to where believers should come together in his name, and this is the reason believers believe cause they know that greater is he that is in them than is in the world, its the love that is greater than that makes the Christian faith real, etc... This message has been edited by whatever, 05-30-2004 08:49 PM
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