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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Catholicism versus Protestantism down the centuries | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry, I missed that you said they belonged to him. I didn't know he claimed to possess gospel fragments. But apparently he was exonerated of Tischendorf's charge, which I think was about the Shepherd of Hermas, by a reputable collector. But if he was that clever a forger that's what needs to be proved. So he'd claim in public to have made Sinaiticus, why? To get back at Tischendorf?
Never mind, I need to start writing down the evidence I hear. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I got a comment on one of my blog posts about Simonides, quoting Kenyon, and sent it on to Chris Pinto who has been researching the Simonides affair, and he wrote me an answer, HERE
Perhaps Pinto should have been more alert to the nature of the mss described?? ABE: But then I see that he goes on to quote someone who says the papyri Simonides had are identical to others already known. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Amusing. Don't you want to be released from obeying laws against discriminating against gays? Yet you condemn the Catholic church from freeing people from obeying a dictator's laws. This bogus moral equivalence you all practice here is really insane. No distinctions made between murderers and God believers, or you'll bend over backwards to prove the God believers are murderers. And I guess you believe it. ABE: It's hard to believe you would make an equivalence between Christians being free to refuse a service that would violate God's law, and Catholics being free to murder "heretic" kings on the authority of the Pope. Really unbelievable. When a person can make such a statement the world has gone truly mad. This is what you are comparing to Christians calling gay marriage a sin:
By the times of King James, the Popes of Rome had been usurping the rights of kings for centuries on end, placing them under interdict and causing many troubles, e.g., releasing Catholics from obeying the laws of the land, AND TELLING THEM THAT IT IS A "MERITORIOUS" THING TO KILL A HERETICK KING. IN FACT, JESUITS AND ROMAN CATHOLICS TRIED TO KILL KING JAMES IN THE GUNPOWDER PLOT OF 1605. King James wrote forcefully about the Roman Catholic church's tendency to usurp power, kill kings, and disrupt kingdoms. The following is excerpted from, "King James has a message that Rome does not want you to hear." /ABE I don't care if I'm released or not. I'm ready to see this whole ship sink if you want to know. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I think that Faith has made it quite plain that anti-Catholic writings are automatically true. To her. Unless they aren't vicious enough, perhaps. I don't recall posting anything "vicious" but hey, you here all know my mind so much better than I possibly could. Anyway, I just found this one, collects some interesting facts in one place that I've been taking notes on:
So, you think the Roman Inquisition ended many centuries ago? Think again Tuesday, April 29, 2014 8:22 (Before It's News) When Garibaldi’s armies marched into Rome in 1848, it was found that the Roman Catholic Church was walling-up, burning alive and also lowering victims — heretics and liberals, into giant ovens. The Vatican Church dungeons, discovered there, were opened up for the public to see (interestingly similar to what was done after WW2 when the Nazi camps were also opened for public viewing?) Although I have seen, in a film, pictures of just what was displayed to the public, I can’t find anything on a www image search. Has there been an attempt to delete these events, and the photographic record, from history? These events and the pictures are detailed in a film by Adulum Productions called ‘Tares Among the Wheat’ (follow link) -->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wep1KFb3wns The film also details the discovery that the Inquisition was still in full operation at the Convent of Santo Domingo in Mexico, exposed by H Grattan Guinness in his book City of Seven Hills, (1891). The evidence was presented in an English Baptist Church publication called The Sword and the Trowel’, spring edition 1873 (see link below) The article was written by the ‘Prince of Preachers’ Mr Charles Spurgeon, minister of the Metropolitan Tabernacle, in South London. The Sword and the Trowel is still in publication — although todays reverent gentlemen at the Metropolitan Tabernacle are peculiarly reluctant to discuss this and other related matters. Have the Jesuits infiltrated ALL the Protestant churches? Even the godly Baptist Churches, and London’s famous ‘Met Tab’? I suspect, sadly, yes. The following is from the Metropolitan Tabernacle publication called ‘The Sword and Trowel’, January 1873: The Spurgeon Library | Page not found The times changed, and being no longer able to burn the heretics and the excommunicated publicly, the holy office found means of putting them to death without the shedding of blood and for the glory of God, by means of walling-up and ovens.The walling-up was of two kinds, the propria, andimpropria, or complete and incomplete. By the first they punished dogmatists, by the second, the professors of witchcraft and sorcery. To punish the former they made a niche in a wall, where standing upright on his feet, they placed the condemned, binding him well to the wall with cords and chains, so that he could not move in the least. They then began to build from the feet to the knees, and every day they raised the wall a course, at the same time giving the prisoner to eat and to drink. When he died, and God knows with what agonies, the wall was built up. But dead or alive, it was closed in such a manner that no one could see where the niche had been and that a body remained there.The incomplete walling-up, or enclosure, was made by sitting the condemned in a pit bound hand and foot, so that his head only was above ground. The pit was then filled up with quicklime, and moisture from the body soon acting on it, converted it into fire, and the miserable wretch was burnt alive with the most frightful torture.As knowledge and civilization increased, and the people began to see through the impostures of the priests, they feared lest, spite of their secrecy, such atrocities might creep abroad amongst the corrupt sons of the age, and in order to retain the knowledge of these holy proceedings amongst a few, they dismissed the building-up, and adopted a plan more anticipative of the pains of hell, and this was by burning the condemned without flame, and without shedding of blood. They invented ovens, or furnaces, which being made red-hot, they lowered the condemned into them, bound hand and foot, and immediately closed over them the mouth of the furnace. This barbarous punishment was substituted for the burning pile, and in 1849, these furnaces at Rome were laid open to public view in the dungeons of the holy Roman Inquisition, near the great church of the Vatican And — believe it or not — the Holy Roman Inquisition is still in existence today, but has been renamed several times. It’s now called Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(C.D.F.). You will find all the details here on Wikipedia: Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith - Wikipedia TMWKTMBNE I denounce you as the enemy and the anti-Christ and all your false doctrine. I denounce you! I denounce you, as Christ’s enemy! Dr Ian Paisley, speaking from the audience of the European Parliament, addressing Pope John Paul II in 1988, who was addressing the European Parliament. Dr Paisley was violently removed from the building. No peace with ROME Charles Spurgeon, Sword and the Trowel, January 1873. The Tap Blog is a collective of like-minded researchers and writers who've joined forces to distribute information and voice opinions avoided by the world's media. Source: the tap: So, you think the Roman Inquisition ended many centuries ago? Think again Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, I'm not for burning heretics.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I don't justify his divine right of kings, he obviously overdid it to an extreme, all I said was that it's understandable in the light of papal intentions against Protestant kings, and assumption of power over all kings for that matter.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The vilification of King James has been extreme and slanderous and the point is to bring him back into human focus. Overall he WAS a very good man and a good king, though flawed and a creature of his time.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Didn't you complain that you couldn't find any modern anti-Catholic sources that were extreme enough for you ? Preferring stuff from the 1920s and earlier, as I recall ? I am in awe of how ready you are to put the nastiest possible interpretation on anything I write. The point was that the sources from about that time on have been tampered with and whitewashed, but you can still find the truth in older books. The point is TRUTH. (Naaa, it's really viciousness, you should know.) As the author of that page I posted a few posts back complained, he couldn't even find pictures at Google Image of the torture cells Garibaldi found when he opened the dungeons of Rome in 1848, though they are published in old books. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'd say he did live a blameless life. That describes his commitment to all good things in the light of the Bible and his living them in his daily life, including apologizing when he wronged someone, truly loving his wife and things like that, not typical of kings. I do still have to read through more of the links on him, but my assessment at the moment is that certainly he shouldn't have approved of the torture of anyone, but I write that off as the times he lived in, it wasn't some personal quirk of his own, try as hard as you will to make it so.
And the more you all carry on about that the more I see the typical style I find at EvC anyway, that comes against me all the time, accuse accuse accuse, twist, distort, vilify, upbraid, revile, never give the slightest benefit of the doubt, make whoever you choose to vilify out to be the worst creature that ever lived. It's like you train your beady eyes closely on every word in the attempt to find something you can condemn in me or anything or anybody I support. It's so extreme I can't take anything you say seriously at all. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I took him to mean that they were both in Greek, which was the unusual thing. They'd only had copies in Latin previously.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes, "overdid it to an extreme" sounds pretty blameless. Overdoing the idea of the divine right of kings didn't do any harm to anyone. Here's my current assessment: Except for his lamentable acceptance of torture as reasonable punishment in a few instances, King James lived a blameless life. I don't think believing in the divine right of kings made him bad, just wrong, and again, in historical context it was quite understandable.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
ABE: Harm to whom?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sigh. I got through your first sentence and already have to object. I have not "denied that Simonides was a fraudster." Chris Pinto's study of the situation suggests that he might have been sincere, and I think that's all I said, or that Pinto said. Pinto has emphasized that there are many unanswered questions while bringing out the elements he thinks may justify him. I have no reason to assume anything about the situation, and have been more or less waiting to see what develops, both here and on my blog. I've found this discussion interesting and wondered if someone here might be able to actually prove that he was the con man he's been accused of being, but I haven't mulled it carefully yet, and since there is a tendency here to take any point of view that opposes what you think my point of view is, I maintain at least a position of neutrality or inconclusiveness for now.
If you want me to read through a whole post of yours it might be best to start out with a fair assessment of my point of view. Edited by Faith, : add comma
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Granted, I overstated it there out of frustration with the post I was responding to, just the usual acceptance of the usual accusations. OK. But my position at my blog has been that I don't know but that Pinto has raised some interesting objections to the usual view of Simonides.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Irresponsible of me, yes, I haven't cared much about this discussion, should have stayed out of it.
Hey, I never had any interest in getting deeply into any of this, at my blog or anywhere. At least at my blog I don't take any hard position, I'm just waiting to see what happens. Here I get driven crazy by the kneejerk accusations. Of course I should be perfect and not react but I'm not. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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