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Author Topic:   War in Iraq, is there a point?
Tal
Member (Idle past 3996 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 226 of 308 (236158)
08-23-2005 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Yaro
08-23-2005 3:53 PM


Re: Popular Support
Ahhh..that's better.

Note there is no poll in the Boston Globe. It just says there was a poll conducted by the military.

The Zogby poll doesn't squat about Iraqis supporting the insurgency.

Your Arab publication doesn't list any poll that I can see.

We are talking about the number of Iraqis supporting the insurgency right? Not just the number that want us out?


Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Yaro, posted 08-23-2005 3:53 PM Yaro has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tal
Member (Idle past 3996 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 227 of 308 (236159)
08-23-2005 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by jar
08-23-2005 3:42 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
You are the one making the claim. You tell me and use supporting links.

I'm not doing your homework for you.


Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 08-23-2005 3:42 PM jar has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 228 of 308 (236160)
08-23-2005 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Tal
08-23-2005 10:35 AM


Re: dangers of wmd (a,k.a americans living in a dream world)
I actually had Woodrow Wilson in mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Tal, posted 08-23-2005 10:35 AM Tal has responded

Replies to this message:
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GDR
Member
Posts: 5004
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 229 of 308 (236161)
08-23-2005 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by deerbreh
08-23-2005 3:47 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
deerbreh writes:

Well, for one, I think I would get out of Iraq so that we are no longer a target there and focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan which is what we should have done all along. The Taliban are coming back in Afghanistan and Osama is still on the loose in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

IMHO that would be the absolute worst thing to do. It is certainly an open question whether it was the right thing to do in the first place, but that is no longer relevent.

Pulling out now would indicate that the US is not prepared to finish what they start and it would leave Iraq in chaos. Anarchy in Iraq would leave in tatters the progress that has been made towards peace in the mideast.

Insurgents are now established in Iraq and it would give them a new base of operations for world wide terrorism.

The most important reason to not do it is that every Iraqi life is precious, as is there freedom, and it would be mean abandoning a whole nation at the time that they are most in need.
The right thing isn't always easy, but it is still the right thing.


Everybody is entitled to my opinion. :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by deerbreh, posted 08-23-2005 3:47 PM deerbreh has responded

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nator
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 230 of 308 (236163)
08-23-2005 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 10:35 AM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
quote:
You seem to be obtuse or incapable of comprehending the circumstances we have been forced into dealing with.

Gee, wasn't it you who were worried about having your intelligence called into question?

Seems like you have no problem dishing it out.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 10:35 AM FairWitness has responded

Replies to this message:
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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1212 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 231 of 308 (236164)
08-23-2005 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Tal
08-23-2005 3:01 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
What about them?

What part of "target" don't you understand? Some are getting killed but many more are coming home as amputees or maimed in some other way. Either way, they are no longer available for duty.

As to your analysis - excuse me but I have heard it all before - during Vietnam. I have no more confidence in the U.S. military's or the civilian leadership's analysis of what is really going on in Iraq than I did in Vietnam.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Tal, posted 08-23-2005 3:01 PM Tal has responded

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Tal
Member (Idle past 3996 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 232 of 308 (236165)
08-23-2005 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by nator
08-23-2005 4:02 PM


Re: dangers of wmd (a,k.a americans living in a dream world)
Funny, I would think that if you think it is so evil, you would call for Senator Byrd's resignation immediately!

I mean, that's what the left did to Trent Lott, and he just said a couple of nice things about Strom Thurmon.

What media bias?


Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by nator, posted 08-23-2005 4:02 PM nator has not yet responded

GDR
Member
Posts: 5004
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 233 of 308 (236166)
08-23-2005 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by jar
08-23-2005 3:56 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
jar writes:

So far so good.
Now can you agree that our reactions so far, things like invading Iraq and Afganistan have been patterned on the old paradigm of Nation State Conflicts?

Actually I don't. If you were to consider Iraq in isolation I could see your point, but when you look at the war against terror in its totality I don't agree.

The US has targeted the terrorists in Afghanistan and formed a working relationship with the Pakistani gov't which has forced bin Laden's camps underground instead of being able to operate openly with the support of the Taliban gov't. They have,(to the best of my knowledge), cut off a great deal of their financial resources. They have realized the necessity of working with moderate Muslims. They have revamped homeland security to deal with terrorism. They have revamped their intelligence network to target terrorism.

It is the US more than anyone who has recogniozed that this is a warunlike any other.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by jar, posted 08-23-2005 3:56 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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AdminSchraf
Inactive Member


Message 234 of 308 (236167)
08-23-2005 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 11:51 AM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
quote:
Guess you're too stupid to know that's your role in this war. Dumb ass!!

Stop the personal attacks immediately or face a temporaty suspension of posting privilages.

This behabior is in violation of the forum guidelines, which you agreed to adhere to when you registered here.

This post is specifically about Rule #3, but you are also frequently in violation of rules #2 and #4.

2) Debate in good faith by addressing rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not merely keep repeating the same points without further elaboration.

3) Respect for others is the rule here. Argue the position, not the person. The Britannica says, "Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach."

4) Make your points by providing supporting evidence and/or argument. Avoid bare assertions. Because it is often not possible to tell which points will prove controversial, it is acceptable to wait until a point is challenged before supporting it.

This message has been edited by AdminSchraf, 08-23-2005 04:12 PM


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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a servant of Christ
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 308 (236169)
08-23-2005 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Tal
08-23-2005 10:33 AM


You werent there when they dropped the bombs over Baghdad. And I know soldiers don't purposefully shoot civilians. But when the bombs drop they don't magically kill terrorists only.

Your interpretation of where it says "civilian deaths caused by U.S. led coalition is dishonest. Why can't you read it for what it says.

I guess you can't see some of the results of what you participated in. That's sad.

Why aren't they POW's?

Because they don't wear a uniform, or a "distinguishable sign"?

That's dishonest and immoral to believe that.

I'll post a few stories tonight about a taxi driver named Dilawar that was tortured and murdered at Guantanamo bay and a few others.

Read up on my theology?

You shoot an enemy, you disobey God.

Straight from our Holy book my friend.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Tal, posted 08-23-2005 10:33 AM Tal has responded

Replies to this message:
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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1212 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 236 of 308 (236170)
08-23-2005 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by GDR
08-23-2005 4:02 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
...it would leave Iraq in chaos.

Iraq is in chaos now and it is not getting any better. Terrorists are coming to Iraq to kill Americans. If we were not there they would have less incentive. It is far easier for a Pakistani or Saudi to get to Iraq than to come to the U.S.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 4:02 PM GDR has not yet responded

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 237 of 308 (236171)
08-23-2005 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by GDR
08-23-2005 3:11 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
There are two things about opposing the methods being utilized to fight the war against terrorism, number one is obvious: the President of the United States, as Commander in Chief, has the responsibility, discretion & prerogatives to make decisions about how the war is conducted. He ran for the office & won the election. It's his call. Number two: your candidate, whomever that was, lost & the only way you can change the way this war is being conducted is to change Commanders-In-Chief. So you'll need to get someone elected to the office who either agrees with your position or run for the office yourself & get yourself elected. Either way, while we're fighting & our soldiers are dying, it would be the patriotic thing to do while in public at the very least keep the negativity to a minumum so as to avoid encouraging the terrorists. Don't you agree?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 3:11 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 4:25 PM FairWitness has responded
 Message 246 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 4:28 PM FairWitness has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31661
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 238 of 308 (236172)
08-23-2005 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by GDR
08-23-2005 4:11 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
Did the US invade Afganistan?

Did the US invade Iraq?

The other things you mention such as working with Pakistan I'll address as we move through. But the issue of invasion and occupation (and we still have troops in Afganistan) is important because of the percentage of the available resources committed.

Let's deal with those actions before moving on to others.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 4:11 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 4:42 PM jar has responded

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 239 of 308 (236173)
08-23-2005 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by AdminSchraf
08-23-2005 4:12 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
Message received, sir. My apologies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by AdminSchraf, posted 08-23-2005 4:12 PM AdminSchraf has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 240 of 308 (236176)
08-23-2005 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 12:33 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
quote:
Obviously some of you guys didn't take this course. Have any of you stopped to think what the outcome would be in the unlikely event we were to loose this war? Would like to see the women in our nation wearing burkas? Sharia laws imposed on the entire population?

Women in Iraq didn't have to wear burkkas when Hussein was in power.

Sharia wasn't law there, because Hussein suppressed radical Islam.

Now there is a real possibility that Iraq will be a fundamentalist islamic state, just like Saudi Arabia and Iran.

All that because of the Iraq war.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 12:33 PM FairWitness has responded

Replies to this message:
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