Man raised back to life in Jesus' name

How about this one? "Official investigations have been carried out with the result that it has been considered an undeniable fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary has been appearing on Zeitun Church in a clear and bright luminous body seen by all present in front of the church, whether Christian or Moslem"Report of General Information and Complaints Department, Zeitun, Egypt 1968

That's what I thought to. The irony of this event is that for a period of around 3 years Orthodox, Muslims (majority), Catholics & Protestants (minority), Agnostics, and even Athiests reported seeing this event.As another poster on another forum noted: Some have suspected that this could very well be the adversary's counterfeit. However, I don't think this is the case. Mary did not speak, she smiled and waved to everyone, she did on a few occasions bow down in reverence to a cross on the church though.Furthermore, as far as I have investigated it, there was apparently a local resisance of Muslims shortly prior to the apparition's appearance which had certain plans in the works. A few extremist groups within the local Muslim culture were apparently planning some kind of local jihad on certain religious groups, including Christians.When the apparitions began, however, even Muslims were shouting, quoting from the Koran, "Mary, God has chosen thee. And purified thee; He has chosen thee. Above all women." And, it should be noted, the planned local jihad was halted by her appearance, essentially saving the lives of potentially many minority Christians in the area.If this account is true, then it would seem to me that the adversary really messed up by saving the lives of many people, including Christians as well.

That's something that you will have to look into for yourself randman. I too have had some very interesting "spiritual experiences" over the years. My family seems to be showered with them like rice at a wedding.For the record, I do think there is an energy and vibrancy among protestant groups that I admire very much. If only we could learn from each other. It would be interesting to have an ecumenical thread where Christian's of various backgrounds could discuss their ideas openly and without insult to one another.I sincerely believe that the things that divide us are much less than the Lord that unites us. Someday these divisions will pass and we will all be drinking from the same cup in Christ.

I'm reading a lot of arguing about miracles tight now.Has everyone agreed with each other as to what an authentic miracle is?This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 01-07-2006 12:38 AM

OT but...The Scriptures were handed down to us by people who believed -- not the other way around.

No.The onus seems to be for a good portion of us (from very different and contradictory perspectives) to be in agreement as to what an "authentic miracle" is before we all start arguing over whether or not something can be considered as "evidence" of a miracle in the first place.What do you suggest?

Note: I haven't read through other parts of this website. However, I found this bit of research interesting: Scientific Evidence for Answered Prayer and the Existence of God

Hmmm...interesting.However, in the case of the example of the limbs regrowing, it seems as though some things can be checked.For example, when a bone breaks, it usually leaves some kind of evidence of it having broke (such as some kind of mark going along the bone after it has healed). In fact, doctors can often look at an x-ray of someone's bones and determine with relative ease where a bone has broken in the past.Furthermore, it is also well known that bones have rings around them as they grow (something akin to tree rings which one can use to determine the age of a tree). Although it is not always accurate, doctors can determine the relative age of someone by looking at the development of their bones.In the case of the hypothtical miracle, if one were to critiacally examine the bone using current medical procedures, one might see that there are is certain amount of aging indicated on the origianl bone -- followed by a bizarre cycle of bone growth which indicate no aging whatsoever (or rapid growth in less than one year).I suppose it depends on exactly how the hypothetical mircale works, But I think, in general anyway, is would most likely be possible to verify a genuine miracle from a hoax.Personally, I'm not aware of any validated tests involving the supposed re-growth of a missing limb. There are, however, some reports of "ghost limbs" appearing on the MRI's of people who have recently had a limb amputated or severed, Again, I'm not sure of the accuracy of these reports. Just food for thought.

I disagree.Based on the information we have today, I think that a lack of any indication of bone restructuring/growth would strongly indicate a lack of a miracle.This is one of the reasons why I disagree with arguments for a universe created with the "illusion of age". Although there do appear to be some minor anomalies along the way, there is basicaly no strong reason to think the universe is young based on the convergence of geological, biological and astronomical information available today.If one wants to claim that a miracle happened in the form of a rapid creation of the universe, then they need to develop some evidence as to why they believe this rapid miracle happened. Simply stating that a miracle happened is not sufficient to validate it happened under any form of scientific scutiny that I'm aware of.

I have no idea if the reports are true or not.I read about the phenomenon a few years ago -- and it seems to me that there was some evidence in favor of complications during the supposed MRI scans (such as bleeding or temperture variaitons) which resulted in the possibility of erroneous data -- edit: in other words, apparent vague images of limbs seemed to be appearing where an arm or leg had been recently severed).However, if the soul is a real and tangible phenomenon, it doesn't seem totally outside of the scope of scientific inquiry to see if it has any measurable effect on the matter around it.The soul, in most religions anyway, seems to be highly linked with the concept of light. Light exhibits a duality in which it can be treated as either a wave or a particle. It remains possible that the "soul" of a being is a more unique form of light which does not correspond to the normal duality of light. Perhaps the soul is a form of electromagnetism which does not exhibit any particle-like qualities yet possesses wave-like characteristics.Who knows?This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 01-07-2006 09:39 PMThis message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 01-07-2006 09:56 PM

That is the other more thoroughly researched phenomenon which is well decumented. But I might as well interject a thought concerning it:Could one consider this as a potential evidence that the soul exists?

The only thing, in my mind, that might be related to this question is the search for quantum gravity.The soul, it seems to me, would be some kind of inverse quantum fluxation that defies the properties of the virtual particles around them.As Simon Hooks notes in his on-line article: Please note that Simon Hooks is not attempting to validate the existence of the soul based on his research. His objective was to answer the question: Given the First Law of Thermodynamics: that you can't get something from nothing. Where did all the stuff in the universe come from and how is it still a law if it was once broken?The following thoughts are my own thoughtas in regards to the knowledge we theoretically have today.Whereas matter is "self-contained" and can pop from one point to another as 'vitual particles' in harmony with the second law of thermodynamics, the soul would be an effectively open system which defies the second law.Whereas matter is permitted to ”borrow’ a tiny amount of energy and exist for a very short length of time (and then it must return the energy and disappear again), the soul would simply be a potentially eternal openning to the initial conditions which preceeded the Big Bang (and it wculd continue on even if the matter in the universe were to revert back into a Big Crunch for example).Whereas with matter the more energy it borrows the less time it is allowed to exist, the soul would be in opposition to this, the less energy it borrows the more time it is allowed to be open to the initial conditions.If matter is openned to the intial conditions precedding the Big Bang, it could adopt the properites of the soul. Similarly, if the soul becomes closed to the initial conditions precedding the Big Bang, it could adopt the properties of matter.

I dunno.

Or, it could suggest that souls can interact measurably with atoms even though they are themselves currently beyond our direct ability to capture.

So what happens when neural signals are fired off but the person who's brain emitted the signals clearly states (albeit, with much confusion), "Um...I didn't do that."