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Author | Topic: Man raised back to life in Jesus' name | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6051 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
I disagree. Based on the information we have today, I think that a lack of any indication of bone restructuring/growth would strongly indicate a lack of a miracle. There is a fallacy in there. Let me rewrite your line a bit to point it out: Based on the natural information we have today, I think that a lack of any indication of natural bone restructuring/growth would strongly indicate a lack of a supernatural miracle. You are trying to use a naturalistic hypothesis to make predictions about a supernatural force. Simply not possible. You don't even know what the supernatural force is, let alone how it would act, or what evidence it would leave behind.
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6051 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
why would the soul require arms or legs? Masturbation and jogging.
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Mr. Ex Nihilo Member (Idle past 1366 days) Posts: 712 Joined: |
So you're using this excuse as a reason not to look at all then?
It seems to me that a pattern should be evident. Furthermore, your definition of "supernatural" seems to be linked to the idea of "impossible". My definition of "supernatural" is more closely related to "unexplained". Now, for example, if one did check a report for restored limbs, and one did actually find the bone-structure exactly as I noted before, would that be considered an evidence that something "supernatural" occured? You can use whichever defintion you prefer to answer this. This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 01-07-2006 11:20 PM
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Mr. Ex Nihilo Member (Idle past 1366 days) Posts: 712 Joined: |
Shock and Awe!
(wait a sec...that should be reversed)
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i think i've said it somewhere before... but i have had dreams about buildings that i've never seen but i later find out to be real. they tend to be in locations where i have ancestors.
i don't rule it out. i think it's a better explanation than reincarnation. but i don't think it's necessarily proof of a soul or of anything supernatural. just because we don't understand it yet doesn't mean it's got to be abnormal or extra-real. there was a time when people didn't understand fire or earthquakes.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
brenna, take a step back though. If we begin to understand how the soul works, that does not mean the soul does not exist all of the sudden but would be more evidence of the soul.
To think of spiritual and supernatural as referencing things that can never be understood by definition is a major modern fallacy. Imo, the fact you possess some foresight is indicative more than you have a spirit than soul, but that's because I think there is a major difference between the 2. The spirit can view beyond space-time if gifted to do so. Of course, your idea of a connection with your ancestors would be another explanation.
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6051 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
So you're using this excuse as a reason not to look at all then? Me? Yeah, I'm getting there, anyway... There are always evidence-based naturalistic explanations for supernatural claims. There are always faith-based supernatural explanations for naturalistic claims. To some extent, why bother? (Except perhaps for fun and profit...)
Furthermore, your definition of "supernatural" seems to be linked to the idea of "impossible". Yep. Because something impossible would break the cycle I note in bold just above.
Now, for example, if one did check a report for restored limbs, and one did actually find the bone-structure exactly as I noted before, would that be considered an evidence that something "supernatural" occured? First, since noone has ever analyzed a regenerated human limb before, it would be difficult to know what the data meant. (Though if there was an opportunity to analyze several of these alleged regeneration cases it would get more interesting.) Second, better documentation would need to exist that the limbs were gone at some point than "I know this person who know this really smart person who totally believes that this village is convinced this guy's legs regrew!"
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Mr. Ex Nihilo Member (Idle past 1366 days) Posts: 712 Joined: |
That's basically my thoughts on the matter too.
Technically speaking when someone says they don't beleive in the "supernatural", it usually means they believe that our knowledge basically can cover and explain most things. It remains, however, very possible for a "soul" to exist in purely naturalistic terms -- it's just relegated to the "realm of the supernatural" because we can't explain it yet. Technically speaking, in regards to the supernatural, I am an atheist. If it's real then it's real regardless of whether we can explain it or not.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i don't disbelieve in a soul. but i think it is foolish to just stop questioning just because 'oh well that's just your soul'. apparently there's some unaccountable 21 grams lost at death. i lose a pound or two every night unexplainably. i can't possibly sweat that much and if i weigh myself before i use the restroom i still sometimes am lighter than i was the night before. did my soul die a little? no. then i guess broken down food weighs less than undigested food.
for a thing to be supernatural, means that it is not governed by natural laws. our brains are governed by such and as a result, i think they cannot comprehend unnatural things.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
actually, children under five can and do regrow lost body parts. well. usually digits, but still
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i think it is possible that things exist outside of the known universe that do not follow the laws of such. can we know about them? maybe. but we will probably never be able to name or understand them.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
There is quite a literature on ghost limbs. Try google.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
But if our mind and imagination consist of more than our brain with our brain being a receptor of both input from the body and spirit, then our minds can comprehend spiritual things.
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6051 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
actually, children under five can and do regrow lost body parts. Reference, please.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
oh geeze. it's common knowledge. the only sources i can find are kiddie books.
http://www.ualberta.ca/...l/Articles/It'll%20Grow%20Back.htm With children under age five who lose the tip of a finger up to halfway to the outermost joint, if left untreated, the finger will regrow completely. If medical attention is applied, stitches for example, the child's finger will not regrow.You Can't Sneeze with Your Eyes Open, by Barbara Seuling, 1986, Ballantine Booksw NY This message has been edited by brennakimi, 01-08-2006 12:00 AM
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