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Author
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Topic: ICANT'S position in the creation debate
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 493 of 687 (524064)
09-14-2009 10:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 481 by greyseal
09-11-2009 7:20 AM
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Re: Time changes
Hi greyseal,
greyseal writes: If relativity is right, and the amount of travel is enough to see time-dilation (remember, it's a tiny, tiny effect at non-relativistic speeds), those clocks will no longer be in sync. Doesn't the clocks tick different if one clock is at sea level and one at 29,000' above sea level.
greyseal writes: Flying clocks around the world in planes is *exactly* the same as putting them in orbit. Not quite as the ones in orbit are a bit higher and effected a little more by gravity.
greyseal writes: The clocks in orbit WILL show a different time from a clock on the ground.
Not the ones in the GPS satellites.
greyseal writes: NO they don't both agree. All the GPS satellite clocks agree with the clock on the ground. My clock is the only one that does not agree with all the others. It does not agree because it was not adjusted for a different tick rate which is necessary for them to agree, because my clock in the satellite is 11,000 miles from the earth. The gravity effect on the clock is a lot less therefore it ticks faster. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 481 by greyseal, posted 09-11-2009 7:20 AM | | greyseal has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 494 of 687 (524066)
09-14-2009 10:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 482 by JonF
09-11-2009 8:49 AM
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Re: Time changes
Hi JonF,
JonF writes: It depends on who's observing it. It's relative. If you are observing it from the ground, yes. If you are sitting on the satellite watching it, no. Are you saying that my clock that was built in the earth frame and then put into orbit is not effected by earth's gravity if I am sitting in the satellite with it, (keeps perfect time) but if I am on the ground it does effect it (runs fast}?
JonFYou cannot exceed the speed of light so the rest of your statement is meaningless. Tell that to two entangled particles. Their information is communicated instantly, no matter how far apart they are. That is why Einstein called it "spooky action at a distance".
JonF writes: (try googling "pulitzer prize). Isn't that what you would get for the greatest story of the decade even if it was science fiction. Now if you could prove spacetime existed and what it was you would probably get a Nobel Prize in Physics. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 482 by JonF, posted 09-11-2009 8:49 AM | | JonF has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 498 by JonF, posted 09-14-2009 12:20 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 495 of 687 (524067)
09-14-2009 10:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 483 by Modulous
09-11-2009 9:21 AM
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Re ICANT'S cosmos
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes: But as per the above experiment, When did any of these experiment's take place? I didn't know we had spaceships and trains that could travel 93,000 miles per second.
Modulous writes: These kinds of questions might help us to get an understanding of your model of the cosmos. ICANTS position on the cosmos. Space exists in eternity. Things exist in space. All these things were created and are held together by the life giving form that beget life on earth. Time was invented by man to measure existence/duration. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 483 by Modulous, posted 09-11-2009 9:21 AM | | Modulous has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 496 of 687 (524075)
09-14-2009 10:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 487 by Rrhain
09-12-2009 3:06 AM
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Re:Life
Hi Rrhain,
Rrhain writes: Question: Are you saying there has always been life somewhere in the universe or do you think that there was a time when there was no life followed by a time when there was life? My question was is there anything alive on earth today that was not produced by life? yes/no is all that is required. God is infinite therefore life has always existed.
Rrhain writes: Which is it, ICANT? Panspermia or biogenesis? Panspermia=life seeds came from outer space and planets exchanged life. So if you mean from within the universe, then No. Biogenesis=The theory of biogenesis states that living things can only arise from living things and cannot be spontaneously generated.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. God gave life to man, as well as all plants and animals, Thus life begat life. According to the theory of biogenesis definition I found and printed above the Biblical account agrees that life produces life. Observation: Life exists today. According to the theory of biogenesis life can only be produced by life and not by spontaneous generation. Conclusion: A life form had to begat the first life form on earth. Scientific evidence that there is a life giving being. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 487 by Rrhain, posted 09-12-2009 3:06 AM | | Rrhain has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 503 of 687 (524114)
09-14-2009 2:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 498 by JonF
09-14-2009 12:20 PM
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Re: Time changes
Hi JonF,
JonF writes: Wherever it is, if you are sitting there with it, the clock keeps perfect time. If you are moving relative to it, and/or in a stronger or weaker gravitational field, it will run slow or fast relative to another clock that you are sitting with. It is affected by the Earth's gravity (and the gravity of all objects in the Universe, although most of those effects are negligible.) So my clock or any atomic clock in a satellite at 11,000 miles that has not been adjusted to be in sync with the earth clock will be running 38,000 ns faster per day. This is because of gravity and motion affecting the tick of the atom. Is that correct?
JonF writes: We're discussing people who claim to have found serious problems with relativity I actually thought we were discussing spacetime and it's existence. If it existed what it was. The question I raised was concerning:
quote:
Perhaps readers who are not familiar with the current impossibility of reconciling relativity and quantum theory, may be visiting this site expecting to find an answer to the question "what is space-time?". Alas, there is no answer,
The question "what is space-time?", remains unanswered. Everything else was just responses to the smoke screen that was put up concerning this question. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 498 by JonF, posted 09-14-2009 12:20 PM | | JonF has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 513 by JonF, posted 09-14-2009 7:02 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 504 of 687 (524117)
09-14-2009 2:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 499 by JonF
09-14-2009 12:29 PM
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Re: Time changes
Hi JonF,
JonF writes: An observer on the ground will observe the clock on the satellite running a little faster than any clock he has on the ground. An observer on the satellite will observe clocks on the ground running a little slower than any un-adjusted clock he has on the satellite. This isn't theory, these are facts that we observe in the world around us. The theory of relativity is an explanation of these facts. So what makes these two clocks report a different time? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 499 by JonF, posted 09-14-2009 12:29 PM | | JonF has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 506 of 687 (524127)
09-14-2009 2:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 502 by Modulous
09-14-2009 1:45 PM
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Re: Re ICANT'S cosmos
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes: Do you disagree that the speed of light will be measured the same no matter the speed of the observer? Let me see said the blind man: I have just constructed 2 super bikes powered by dark energy engins. You and I race off from earth on these two bikes and we are traveling at 99.99% the speed of light. Now I really put the hammer down and begin to speed away from you at 99.99% the speed of light. If that is what you are saying is possible in relativity I think I will disagree. Unless you can explain how that is possible. I believe the speed of light in a vacuum is constant but that really depends on the photon being massless. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 502 by Modulous, posted 09-14-2009 1:45 PM | | Modulous has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 509 of 687 (524150)
09-14-2009 3:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 508 by greyseal
09-14-2009 3:46 PM
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Re: Time changes
Hi greyseal,
greyseal writes: The GPS satellite clocks agree with the ones on the ground precisely BECAUSE they are adjusted to compensate for the time dilation which has been experimentally proved to occur, and is a continuous thing they have to deal with. Are you saying gravity does not have anything to do with the clock in the satellite running faster? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 508 by greyseal, posted 09-14-2009 3:46 PM | | greyseal has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 518 of 687 (524386)
09-16-2009 10:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 510 by greyseal
09-14-2009 4:05 PM
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Re: Time changes
Hi greyseal,
greyseal writes: er, nooooo...I'm saying that the ones in space have to be adjusted for time dilation, for really realz. Are you saying then that time dilation is a fancy way of saying the effects of gravity and velocity cause the clocks at height to run slower than those closer to the source of gravity? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 510 by greyseal, posted 09-14-2009 4:05 PM | | greyseal has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 529 by greyseal, posted 09-17-2009 2:39 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 519 of 687 (524389)
09-16-2009 10:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 515 by Modulous
09-14-2009 7:12 PM
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Re Light
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes: I don't know what you mean, sorry. If we were travelling that fast, and were travelling zero relative to one another, and you put your headlights on, we would measure the light travelling away from us at 100% of the speed of light. You lost me there. Lets assume my bike can travel at the speed of light. It is totaly dark. I take off at the speed of light. You wait one second and turn on a super light in the identical path I left in. I never change course so the light is always traveling in the identical direction I am. Will that light catch up to me or will I remain in darkness forever? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 515 by Modulous, posted 09-14-2009 7:12 PM | | Modulous has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 520 of 687 (524390)
09-16-2009 10:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 514 by JonF
09-14-2009 7:03 PM
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Re: Time changes
Hi JonF,
JonF writes: Distortions of spacetime. So what causes those distortions? God Bless,
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 514 by JonF, posted 09-14-2009 7:03 PM | | JonF has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 524 by JonF, posted 09-16-2009 2:05 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 521 of 687 (524412)
09-16-2009 11:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 516 by Izanagi
09-16-2009 7:11 AM
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Re:Life
Hi Izanaqi, Welcome to EvC.
Izanaqi writes: I would like a clarification from ICANT. I think I'm beginning to see what your argument for life is and why specifically you believe you can't create something from nothing and why it is easier for you to believe something is eternal. Life can only be produced by life. This is proved 264 times a minute by humans alone with each birth of a child. Science for the past 150 years have been trying to produce life under the best of conditions with the best of everything available. Not one life form has been produced. But I am told I must believe it happened because we are here life exists. The Bible says God breathed life into a form and that form became a living being. So I do have a choice. I can believe that life produced life. Or I can believe life came from an absence of life. Since it is a scientific fact life produces life and that non life can not produce life the choice is a no brainer for me. Science proves the existence of a life form that gave life to all that there is. That life form would have to be eternal existence itself. Or we would have an infinite number of life forms that produced life. But it makes no difference where there was one or an infinite number science has proved there was at least one. I choose to call that life form God He did give some men information concerning Himself and told them to write it in a book. We have such a book called the Bible.
Izanaqi writes: but allowing life to come from non-life means, in your mind, allowing evolution a backdoor to legitimacy (even though evolution says nothing about how life came to be), Evolution has to have life existing to be able to evolve. If the God of Genesis created life as He says then evolution can not be true. Mankind was created as full grown adults Gen 2:7. Trees were made to grow out of the ground. Gen 2:9 Man was told he could eat fruit from all the trees but one. Gen 2:16, 17. Full grown creatures were formed from the ground. Gen 2:19. The first man named all these creatures. Gen 2:29 Creation by God and evolution are not compatable. You can't mix them.
Izanaqi writes: you must believe that God is eternal. Have I got that right? God is eternal existence. He told Moses tell them "I AM" sent me. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 516 by Izanagi, posted 09-16-2009 7:11 AM | | Izanagi has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 528 by Izanagi, posted 09-16-2009 10:08 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 523 of 687 (524422)
09-16-2009 12:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 522 by Modulous
09-16-2009 11:26 AM
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Re Light
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes: The light won't catch up to you. I didn't think it would.
Modulous writes: We are travelling side by side at the same speed. 99.9% of the speed of light. You turn on your headlights. We measure the distance the photons travel and the time it takes for them to travel that distance. We calculate the speed that the photons are moving away from us. That speed is the speed of light. Agreed? Not in agreement yet. Lets speed up that other 0.1% so we are traveling at the speed of light. I then turn on my headlight as I am traveling at the speed of light I am keeping up with the photons so they can't even get out of the headlight. So what are we going to measure? If it can't catch me from behind it can't run off and leave me if I create it. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 522 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2009 11:26 AM | | Modulous has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 533 of 687 (524639)
09-17-2009 10:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 524 by JonF
09-16-2009 2:05 PM
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Re: Time changes
Hi JonF,
JonF writes: Interesting question. AFAIK we don't know the answer yet. So gravity and velocity has nothing to do with it then.
JonF writes: Time exists independent of Man's definitions, and runs at different rates depending on the state of the observer and the observed. Space exists. Time does not exist except when man uses the concept of time to measure duration/existence. Existence does not speed up or slow down for anything it just is. Message 525
JonF writes: You don't get to travel at the speed of light. You can't speed up that 0.1%. You can speed up almost to it, but you cannot ever reach it no matter what kind of spaceship you envision. Why not? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 524 by JonF, posted 09-16-2009 2:05 PM | | JonF has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 535 of 687 (524653)
09-17-2009 11:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 527 by Modulous
09-16-2009 6:56 PM
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Re Light
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes: Let's not since travelling at the speed of light is not the case I am asking you about. In the example I gave, what do you think we would measure the speed of light travelling away from us at? Well my bike was modified with an on/off switch that works just like the light switch. When I turn my light on my bike instantly stops and then resumes traveling at 99.9% of the speed of light. The stop/restart consumes 1 second. Therefore the light traveled 299,792,458 meters during my one second stop/restart. The light then continues to pull away from me at the rate of 299,792.458 meters per second. I don't have any idea what you are seeing as you ran off 299,792,458 meters in front of me during my 1 second stop/restart. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 527 by Modulous, posted 09-16-2009 6:56 PM | | Modulous has replied |
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