xongsmith writes:
not not-believing in god
is not the same as believing in god.
...and this the issue, methinks.
You're only talking about one of the terms (atheist). We're not talking about just one term on it's own. We're talking about using both terms at the same time. The is from the message you replied to where I tried to explain about using both terms, I'll say it again:
Stile writes:
We're talking about being agnostic and not being an atheist at the same time.
Agnostic = "I don't know if I believe in God or not."
Atheist = "I do not believe in God."
Let's take it slow and see where you don't agree:
1. I am agnostic, therefore: I don't know if I believe in God or not.
2. Since I do not know either way...
2a. - then it's possible that I do believe, it's possible that I'm a theist
2b. - then it's possible that I'll never know, it's possible that I'm agnostic
2c. - then it's possible that I do not believe, it's possible that I'm an atheist
3. I am not an atheist.
This is the confusion.
Do you agree that an honest agnostic really does not know if they believe or not (1)?
Do you agree that possibly-being-an-atheist (2c) is part of an honest interpretation of being agnostic (1)?
Do you agree that possibly-being-an-atheist (2c) is in direct contradiction with claiming to not be an atheist (3)?
xongsmith writes:
not not-believing in god
is not the same as
believing in god.
Do you see the issue now?
I agree with your above statement, it aligns with 2 of the 3 possibilities of being agnostic (actually believing, or remaining agnostic forever).
But what about the last one?
I only think your above statement is relevant if the "agnostic" has already decided that possibly-being-an-atheist (2c) is no longer a part of their agnosticism (1). If that's true... then are they really still agnostic? Are you actually agnostic if you're adamantly against one of the possibilities? It seems to me that you are not... you no longer "don't know" what your belief is. You do, actually, know that a certain side of your belief has been set as impossible (you are stating that you cannot possibly be an atheist (2c)).
Remember, I'm talking about being agnostic and atheist at the same time.
If you're not actually talking about being agnostic... then your comments do not make any sense as they do not encompass the entire situation.