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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Where should there be "The right to refuse service"? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Don't pull that crap on me. It took amending the Constitution for those changes to take force, but this revisionist idea of civil rights has been forced on us overnight by the courts without our getting any say in the matter at all. The VConsitutiton is NOT pliable, it's to be changed carefully and LEGALLY.
This is how Communism works, but it wasn't supposed to be how America works. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Where? When? How could you miss all the pissed off Hoosiers whose demonstrations and complaining moved their government to adjust the previously implemented religious freedom law? Have you been under a rock the past couple weeks?Love your enemies!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Too bad the test was flubbed.
\ But I was talking about the basis for Christian refusal, which is what I thought you wree talking about. However I would bet the Muslim would do the same because he clearly objected to the idea of gay weddings as such.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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t this revisionist idea of civil rights has been forced on us overnight by the courts without our getting any say in the matter at all. The VConsitutiton is NOT pliable, it's to be changed carefully and LEGALLY. You are most certainly correct. I forgot who I was talking to. Forgive me for bringing reality into the discussion.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well you're right about that. Reality these days is to cram the PC agenda down our throats. There is no such thing as American freedom any more, except for select PC darlings.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
I assume you're talking from a jail cell, right? Oh, of course not. You're a woman. One of them protected classes. One of them PC darlings. One of them classes that now is entitled the same rights, respect and dignity from society as us white men ... and blacks, and gays, and Moslems, and Atheists.
Disgusting, isn't it. Should have kept you in the kitchen, naked. Mmmm, yeah, naked.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5
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Don't pull that crap on me. It took amending the Constitution for those changes to take force, but this revisionist idea of civil rights has been forced on us overnight by the courts without our getting any say in the matter at all. Abolishing slavery, as an example, required a change to the Constitution because slavery was written into the Constitution. Affording equal marriage rights to all requires no change to the Constitution, merely its enforcement. "If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I don't think making their discrimination implicit instead of explicit would protect them from a lawsuit based on their discrimination. But there was not evidence that they were discriminating against a protected class. They just didn't want to make a particular cake with a particular message.
The basis of the discrimination is more than apparent in the video; I don't think so. He was willing to make them a cake that says "Ben loves Stephen forever", but he did want not to put a picture of the two men on it or show them holding hands. He wasn't discriminating, he just had certain styles of cakes that he didn't want to make. He was willing to make a cake for a gay wedding. He just didn't want to put certain things on that cake. That's not discrimination.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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You could be right. Maybe all the Christian businesses need to do is say they don't want to do it, no explanations needed. It would work out just fine. But for some reason the christians just can't keep their mouths shut. As I said earlier:
quote:
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Jon Inactive Member |
We'll have to wait for the lawsuits to start rolling in to see whether your interpretation is correct or not.
But I have a feeling the courts won't be so easily bamboozled by your 'technicalities'. Edited by Jon, : No reason given. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
But I have a feeling the courts won't be so easily bamboozled by your 'technicalities'. What evidence of discrimination did you see?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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This is how Communism works
You have no idea what Communism is do you?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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What I've disagreed with is breaking the law by saying that you aren't going to perform it because the customer belongs to a protected class. "I won't do it, because you're gay." That's where the line is drawn in the law. I don't believe that to be correct statement of the law. When the EOC investigates businesses, they simply send in applicants and see who can or cannot be hired or who can or cannot obtain a rental contract. And of course racist renters don't tell black people that they are refusing to rent to black people. Instead, BS reasons are given for why Blacks don't get the apartment. Instead of waiting for overt racist statements, an inference is drawn from repeated behavior of denying black people jobs and apartments. Similarly, I don't believe that a cake baker can simply claim not to want to make a cake to all gay people who ask and so avoid the repercussions for discriminating.
He says that the laws are not about the right to discriminate against people, but instead are about the right of the business to choose its customers. He is right except that the law places limits on your ability to choose your customers. There can be gray areas, which was the original point of my barbershop example. If you ever doubt that people (of any race) can be incompetent at cutting kinky hair or straight hair, get a hair cut at the local barber college.
The problem with you, as well as the christians involved in this mess, is that you can't keep your mouth shut about why you are discriminating. I respectfully disagree. It is of course, less likely that people will bother to sue you if there is a ready alternative. But a repeated pattern of not making gay cakes will reveal a pretext covering discrimination. That is how the law works.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You don't know what Political Correctness is. Just as Theodoric doesn't know what Communism is.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Instead of waiting for overt racist statements, an inference is drawn from repeated behavior of denying black people jobs and apartments. I was thinking along the lines of a singular case. Short of announcing that you won't serve protected class X, its too hard to prove discrimination when you just say that you don't feel like doing the work. But yeah, patterns of denial could be used to infer discrimination.
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