Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

So they won't obey.Which means...what? They will encourage small businesses to disregard the law, accrue fines, refuse to pay them and then go to jail?Pretty brave talk from leaders who won't pay any penalty for urging their flock to throw themselves onto the horns of their own bigotry: these leaders won't suffer fines or jail terms: they will lead from the rear, unconcerned about police dogs, beatings, fire hoses and jail.The commentary claims the moral mantle of MLK. Reverend King went to jail for fighting against bigotry; these jokers will safely urge others to go to jail for bigotry.Sure, I see the equivalence.NB:

quote:

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An Oregon bakery is facing a $135,000 fine for refusing to make a cake for a lesbian wedding and a Washington State florist faces fines for refusing to participate in a gay wedding.

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Florists and bakers did not participate in my wedding, although they provided services for fees. They played no ritual or celebratory role--they weren't even there. This absurd claim that bakers and florists are wedding participants is the last refuge of this particular bigotry.I suppose the maid who changed the sheets before and after participates in the marriage consummation.

Hard for me to understand how otherwise intelligent people can get this SO wrong despite all kinds of explanations.The maid's conscience hasn't been engaged requiring her to participate in gay marriage so no, she's not participating by making the bed. I would think this would be obvious but I guess I don't know how to think like an unbeliever any more.Also, there are sure to be repercussions, on the order of the vandalism done to the Kleins' bakery if not yet by the cops, but I'm not sure the cops won't be involved once there is a law they have to enforce.And why is it so hard to understand that this is about obedience to God and not about personal feelings about homosexuality? Puzzling to me. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Oh, that's too easy.It is because your god, as with all gods, is a facade behind which lies the evil of the priests that concocted him. Over millennia we have come to understand that quite a few of the dictates of these priests that you ascribe to your god are not just wrong but are in fact evil.You need to stop obeying these devils.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

But what you think about God is not what we think about God and for us it is about obeying the Creator of all things. You'd think it should be easy enough to understand that we have a different way of seeing things than you do.I heard the story about the priests years ago, there is no end to the ways people try to discredit God, but there simply is no way to honestly get that idea out of the Bible. I for one went from believing the debunkery to believing the truth.

The priests are not presented as the flawless bunch you'd think they would be if the whole thing was made up by them. God rather harshly judges disobedient priests, at one point opening up the earth and swallowing a bunch of them. Just doesn't fit human psychology that the priests would make up that kind of God and that kind of story against themselves. And that's one of the things about the Bible that convinces many of its truthfulness, the unflinching presentation of the sins and flaws and misbehaviors of God's own people.

Sure it does. It's typical priest-talk to say, "We have it much harder than you do."

That is what completely boggles our minds.The creator of everything, the whole, vast universe, is going to be pissed off if you, on this insignificant dust mote of a planet, bakes a cake for 2 men or 2 women who want to get married.And not only that, they are getting married in a civil ceremony, not a religious one.That mushroom cloud reported from Oregon just now was my head exploding.

You are most certainly free to cherish, pray, and obey all the evil you wish. Seeing things different is not the problem here, M'lady. Demanding that all of secular society accept and practice your priests' evils is the problem. Well, now, it really wouldn't be to their benefit for the priests to admit in their holey tome the whole set-up was all a power grab on their part, would it.Read those parts of the old testament where the priests tell Israel how god wants all the assets, how all the riches, how all the harvests are to be divided among the tribes. Sure enough, the priestly clan, the Levites, the ones who write the books, the ones who determine what god's rules and commands should be, come out sitting pretty, right on top of the whole heap. And all they had to do for this excess largess was light some candles in the temple and tell lies. Sweet.Of course the modern versions (priests, rabbis, preachers, ministers, mullahs, reverends, ayatollahs, bishops, pastors) don't have the warrior class to force that inequitable split anymore so they have to cajole, insist, threaten with hell fire and damnation, but it's all the same thing. Sit in the church, light a few candles, re-tell the lies, collect the tithe. Sweet.As for "ways people try to discredit God," you christians already do a pretty good job of that every time you demand your religious right to practice what you say is your god's hateful evil bigotry.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

The reason I pointed out that we think differently is that you DON'T have to agree with us, merely allow us our different point of view, but persecuting us by taking away our livelihood is certainly not allowing us our point of view. Christians are not forcing anything on anybody, as you are claiming, it's the gay marriage advocates who are forcing their point of view on us, even to the point of enormous fines for simply believing what we believe, and shutting down our businesses.By the way, check out other religions. The ruling or priestly class never allows itself to be criticized as the Old Testament priests are criticized, criticized and severely punished. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

As I just said to AZ, the point is that you don't understand God as we do, and requiring us to believe as you believe is persecution.

Oh, that’s right. It’s not the Christians that are telling the gays they aren’t equal citizens in this secular society and can’t be allowed to marry and enjoy the financial and legal benefits provided to everyone else, it’s those uppity gays trying to force equality for all down Christians' throats. That is quite an imposition on the poor downtrodden Christians. Somethings gotta be done. Lock the door before they get in here and try to order cake like a normal person.

It's the Christians who are going to be homeless but you still make us out to be the aggressors? You've got this backwards.

Oh, and Christians have NOT told gays how to live their lives, they are free to do as they please. You've really got this all twisted up, why can't you see it? THEY are forcing US out of business, THEY are getting us fined beyond our means to pay, THEY are the bullies, WE are the victims. We are not going to disobey God, we have changed nothing in our views and we are persecuting no one, but you and the gay marriage people are persecuting us. And you don't see it.

Such a victim the Christian is. Are you persecuted? Christians should know. You have all that practice persecuting so many for millennia.It has been awhile but if I recall my civics, "gay" can't fine anyone. Only society can. So you get fined for violating the rules of our society and you think you are the victim? Are you the victim when you get fined for speeding?You break the rules, you pay, period!You can't pay the fine and have to close your business? So much the better. The sooner we run the bigots out the better off our markets will be.

Does this apply to all bigots?