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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Since provocation is an integral part of a self-defence claim, the two can not be separated. Sorry, I thought you were having a legal argument, not a semantic one.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
ringo writes: No it isn't. Yes it is.
Your own example says that the prosecutors, "went ahead with the other charges." They could have been convicted on the other charges, even if they weren't. The prosecutors had a backup plan to prevent them from getting off scot-free, as they always would. The way it works is that the prosecution service put a charge to trial if they believe that it has a more than 50% chance of succeeding with a jury AND they believe it is in the public interest to do so. In the example they dropped the kidnapping charge because - we assume - it didn't pass that test. There's no reason to suppose there was any thought of a lessor charge at this stage because of some kind of mitigation. That's simply not part of the decision to prosecute. If, after being found guilty, there are reasons why the offender shouldn't feel the full weight of the punishment, they are raised at sentencing. (Another reason for dropping a higher tariff charge to a lessor one is a plea bargain - this obviously didn't happen here as it was a not guilty plea.)
I realize that the term "mitigation" has a specific connotation in legalese. I wasn't using it that way. If you have a better term for what actually happens, I'm all ears. Sorry, that's the word. There is no word for what you're trying to say because the law doesn't work the way you think it does.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Modulous writes:
You keep trying to make distinctions out of molehills.
Sorry, I thought you were having a legal argument, not a semantic one.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
There's always thought of lesser charges right from the beginning. That's why there's always a slew of charges, some of which may be dropped for one reason or another and some of which may be dismissed for one reason or another and some of which may be defeated for one reason or another. Prosecutors don't waste the taxpayers' money on one magical charge and say, "Oh dearie me, better luck next time," if it fails.
There's no reason to suppose there was any thought of a lessor charge at this stage because of some kind of mitigation. Tangle writes:
I'm just going by what I see in the news, and your own examples.
There is no word for what you're trying to say because the law doesn't work the way you think it does.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
ringo writes: Prosecutors don't waste the taxpayers' money on one magical charge and say, "Oh dearie me, better luck next time," if it fails. That's correct and I gave you their decision making principles. They don't include mitigation.
I'm just going by what I see in the news, and your own examples. Yup, that's why you're getting it wrong.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
What you think you know about the universal, world-wide "decision-making principles" of all prosecutors doesn't seem to agree with the facts.
... I gave you their decision making principles.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
ringo writes: What you think you know about the universal, world-wide "decision-making principles" of all prosecutors doesn't seem to agree with the facts. Well I've given you the bare bones of how it's done in the UK. Canada adopts most of our legal processes but if you think you know better..... Here's the full gen. No doubt you can find your equivalent. The Code for Crown Prosecutors | The Crown Prosecution ServiceJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
I was talking about Canada and the examples you gave were from Canada.
Canada adopts most of our legal processes but if you think you know better.....
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It seems that the facts (despite what il Donald claims) about Mexicans is that since around 2009 more Mexicans have chosen to leave the US than have come into the US.
source.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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I'm going to leave this here:
Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine. |
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As Trump seems to have decided that going to the Supreme Court right now is a lost cause and so tries to get the 9th to do a Mulligan, the Old Dominion has taken a different tack with an Establishment Clause decision using statements from il Donald, Giuliani and other of il Donalds sycophants as the basic evidence to find a high probability that any Establishment Clause challenge would find the order was unconstitutional.
quote: source:
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The Washington Post has a story today titled "ICE nabs young ‘dreamer’ applicant after she speaks out at a news conference".
Daniela Vargas was brought to the US with her family fifteen years ago when she was 7 years old. Her family was here on a visitors visa but fell in love with the US, overstayed their visa and built a new life. For 15 years the educated their kids, worked, payed taxes. Daniela registered under the DARE program, the one that Trump says would continue and that he would protect the DARE kids. About two weeks ago ICE came to their home and arrested her father and brother. For some reason not specified they did not arrest her. Last Wednesday she was one of the speakers at a rally opposing the current deportation frenzy.
quote: source The story continues:
quote: Now the only question is whether or not Trump lied yet again or will he step up and do the honorable thing and call off the deportation of Daniela and her family members who are NOT badass rapists and murderers.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It still isn't clear what orders ICE is acting on. Trump hasn't issued any deportation orders that I'm aware of.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: It still isn't clear what orders ICE is acting on. Trump hasn't issued any deportation orders that I'm aware of. Sorry Faith but this is the Trump Administration. Those people working for Trump and their acts are HIS responsibility.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Not if the laws they are acting under came from Obama.
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