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Author | Topic: Did the Flood really happen? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
There is no evidence that there has ever been a worldwide flood while humans were on earth - i.e. the story of Noah's Ark is fiction. One major mistake: Noah is not a normal human. You can not use modern human to reason things happened in Noah's time.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. That is normal.What's not normal is that Noah lived 950 years.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
We don't have to speculate, we have direct remains of humans that we have examined that would have been alive about the time of Adam (if Adam had ever really existed). You do have to. Those remains may not be human. They are dated a few millions of years old.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
Please point out any one example of human remains dated at millions of years old. Not hominid remains, now - human. I won’t hold my breath, Juve. There are not just human remains that date back to the time of Noah. There are whole cultures, with cities, pyramids, other ruins and artifacts, that date right through that fictional time. If you think Noah is fictional, then the Flood should also be fictional. The consequence is the whole thing is fictional. If so, why do you try to "reason" that the Flood is "impossible"? Is there a chance that a fictional thing is possible? If not, why do you try to argue the possibility of global flood by "reasons"?
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
See, dwise1 said you are dishonest by saying these incredibly old people are "normal".
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
You did say YECs dishonestly count longevity as normal years. And ringo also said they are normal. On the contrast, I said it is not normal.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
So, you should not treat "that" time the same as "this" time.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
The only difference mentioned between that time and this time is longevity. That is more than enough. It is not a reasonable age in biology.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
Since you claim to be so good at reasoning it’s about time you laid it out. How do you get from the long life span attributed to Noah to Noah being a pre-human - and what do you think that Noah actually was? Glad that you finally ask.I am going to be brief here, and see how far YOU can go. The farther you can go, the farther I try to follow. Some physical/astronomical events took place from the time of Genesis to the time of Abraham. These events modified the time frame of the earth. The time we experienced today is entirely different from the time Noah experienced. I am trying to confine the idea and argument to the realm of science as much as possible. Once you accuse me to be fictional, nonsense, or imaginary, then I will stop. This issue should be much harder on YOU than the issue of global flood. I just wonder what kind of question/comment you can make. May be none.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
Indeed not. Which means it is either an oft-repeated error or deliberate fiction. Which reinforces the idea that the flood is also fiction. OK, if you do think the whole thing is fictional, then why are you still try to "reason" on the global flood? Are the arguments on sediments, erosion stuff really meaningful? That is why I want to limit the reasoning only to the flood, but not on Noah. At least you do can say something about science in that case. Once you touch the issues about Noah, at your level, you are simply asking for trouble, and can not go forward beyond the first step. Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
What does this have to do with your claim that Noah was not human? Moreover, why would the Bible use any timeframe other than that experienced on Earth? Also, what events would do this and what evidence do you have that they occurred? I never said Noah is not a human. He IS a human. the Bible describes those events/features without providing explanation. The idea is: believe it or not.It is to those people who do not believe, some scientific explanations are needed. The Bible is a Book of faith, not a book of science, even every word in the Bible is scientifically true. One very simple possibility is that the day/year in early time has different length than that of today. We count day/month/year by the rotation and orbiting of the earth. And we know those factors are not contents, but are variables. For a simple example, one day on Mars is xxx days on the earth.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
Indeed, I suggested earlier that months and years might have gotten confused as the stories were passed down. However, the length of the year is controlled by orbital dynamics and cannot greatly change unless the Earth’s orbit changed.
950 years old Noah is a human, but is not a normal person according to the biology today. That is what I said. It seems you stalled after my first introductory explanation on the longevity issue. Any more question can you ask about Noah's age? BTW, nobody was confused on anything about calendar. People in Noah's time counted number of day and year as precisely as we do today.
It is not the case that every word in the Bible is scientifically true and we know that for a fact (e.g. Genesis 30:31-42 especially verses 38, 39, 41 and 42). That is in the realm of biology. I am pretty bad in biology. So, no comment. Try something else. To you, there should be plenty of scientific errors in the Bible. That is all because you do not understand.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
What you seem to miss is that we have the geologic record, and there is no evidence of a recent global flood. That's what makes a recent global flood impossible. So, on one hand, you talk geology to "prove" the Flood is not possible.On the other hand, you said Noah is a fictional person, so both Noah and the Flood are not possible. If so, why should I bother to talk to you on geology and science? Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
And yet your comments on Noah’s age relate to biology. And you don’t seem much better at physics, yet you’ve recently made suggestions there......The nearest thing is your idea that the year might be a different length. Does biology today recognize that a human can live 960 years? Why not? The alternative is that the 960 years were counted under an environment different from that of today. It seems both of us agreed on this "possibility". My questions, in two folds, to you are:1. Since it is a possibility, then why do you insist that Noah is a fictional person? 2. How would you reason on that possibility? (how did the earth change its orbit?) One more: Is that (the orbiting time) the only way to explain the longevity? Sigh, I have to ask these questions for you. Do you know to give question is harder than to answer question? Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1337 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
2. I would consider the fact that the Earth’s orbit would have to drastically change, and that would have effects that should be noticeable. Not to mention that we would need some mechanism for it. It is not something that can be considered at all likely in the timescale available. The part I quoted for a reply is the useful part in your response. The rest is not worthwhile to react. So, can you explain HOW should the earth orbit be changed so that the change would be reflected through the time duration of an year? [hint: how many earth day is an year on the Mercury?] If you want to talk in science, then DO NOT dismiss anything with an excuse of myth or imagination. Otherwise, you are not qualified to talk about science and should quit the discussion. Sure, to explain the story of Noah is not your problem. But if you want to dismiss the possibility of the story, then it becomes your problem. You can not say that something is not true. And when asked why? Then you say: it is not my problem. I am now holding your hand to go through YOUR problem. Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
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