Chariots of God (Scripture & Photo Examined)

Hello Scott,
I don't think you are a "looney," but I do think you are letting yourself get too deep into trying to justify belief in the existence of spirits by technology. We know of their reality from the Bible, and sometimes we have experiences that may or may not reflect that reality in our own personal lives, but I don't see any reason for us to spend much time trying to convince others of them. The Bible is a guide for Christians to live the life Christ has called us to, and it can get us way off course to spend too much time on things like spirit beings. However, it does sound like you have had a lot of such experience and I hope the advice won't be offensive if I say that I were you I'd consider regarding ALL of it as NOT from God and something demonic you need to get out of your life, through prayer and the help of other believers. I've had to deal with some similar things in my own life since I became a Christian.I didn't know that those circular objects in some photos that are often presented as spiritual beings can be explained as dust particles, as Cat Sci has shown, but it makes sense. I've seen some that glow in a way that does look unearthly, but I never could understand why a spiritual being would appear as an orb instead of, as, well, a spiritual being of some recognizable sort. The ones I've seen are purported to be demonic presences, such as at an event where Christians would expect such presences, for instance because of demonic messages given at the event. I don't think I've seen them claimed to be angels of God before. 'Edited by Faith, : to add "belief in" which is what I meant in the first place

However, I meant giving up the whole idea that orbs are spiritual beings at all, realize that all the spiritual experiences he mentioned are likely demonic and just give up the whole thing as a monumental deception and waste of time..Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

No, you supposedly "proved" that the orbs are demonic, but that is not what I was saying.

Look at his link in Message 64, his claim for the superiority of his view because of his personal experiences in Message 66 and Message 68, and his mention of seeing "chariots" in Message 78.

What I was saying was that ALL his experiences, including the idea that the orbs represent any kind of spiritual being, are deceptions, the whole concept probably being demonically inspired.

All four biblical references to the Spirit's alighting upon Jesus describe the appearance of a dove, not a halo, most clearly in the following reference:

The idea that all the experiences you are talking about could be deceptive is not "information," it's an interpretation based on my own knowledge and experience. You are free to take it or leave it, but not free to call it a "deterrent from the truth" without giving some sort of argument for that claim.

No idea what you are trying to say here. The scripture reference I gave says He appeared IN THE BODILY SHAPE OF a dove, which is not the shape of a halo.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Just that they are unbiblical or deceptions.

The quote from Luke I gave specifically says BODILY SHAPE of a dove.

From the link in Message 64 the idea that he actually saw Jesus standing on the wing of an airplane. It took me a long time to get free of a lot of similar stuff people claim about seeing Jesus. It's all deceptions. Can't prove it I guess.

Yes. I only really have a doubt about one account, by Bilquiis Sheik, who wrote a book ("I Dared To Call Him Father") about her conversion to Christ almost entirely through visions. She's very convincing. I end up ambivalent about her story, unsure what to believe about it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I haven't been spending much time on your posts here but you do seem to be making some interesting observations. Do you have a particular theological frame of reference for these concepts?

Thank you very much, very interesting. I love Watchman Nee, who is often associated with Witness Lee, but always found Lee to be strange and questionable. However, what you've been saying is interesting so I'll do some more reading. Thanks again.

Just to be clear, and hopefully not contributing to any hijacking of the thread, I'm not up on the controversy between the two teachers, I simply discovered Watchman Nee to be wonderfully inspiring and able to explain the most complex aspects of spiritual life in an amazingly lucid and practical way, which leads me to reread some of his work over and over. In fact I've been rereading parts of The Spiritual Man over the last week or so.But my experience of Lee has been limited to very brief encounters with some of his writing that just didn't inspire me at all and seemed to me to be at odds with Watchman Nee. But it's been a long time and I don't remember what I read of Lee's. I just never went back to him but continued to follow Nee.Since you posted this link I've been reading Lee's study of Ezekiel and finding it quite fascinating so perhaps you've led me to another inspiring teacher. (By the way I always find myself alone in my appreciation of the "deeper" or "higher life" Christian writers, so it's nice to know there are still people out there who have the same appreciation.)Will download the CRI article.ABE: OOPS. Sorry, this is definitely off topic. Sorry sorry sorry. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.