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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
mike the wiz
Posts: 4697
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003

Message 662 of 1677 (841682)
10-19-2018 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 661 by Percy
10-18-2018 6:29 PM

Re: Understanding Belief Amongst Reality
Percy writes:

Yes, that's how you come across, because you said, "It's never God that's the problem." This is similar to Faith's position concerning the Bible, that nothing bad described in the Bible is ever God's fault because God can only do good and so if it's God's fault then it must be good, but you have applied it to what is happening today. Hurricane Michael blasts Florida? Not God's problem, those people must have sinned, so the hurricane is a good thing. Gay people discriminated against? Not God's problem, homosexuality is a sin, so the discrimination is a good thing. Plus homosexuals should feel guilty about just being who they are, God insists on that.

Percy that is a PERFECT example of how a non-believer mis-reads Christians, and Christian theology.

You FORGET the biblical history because to your mind, you are treating bible-believing Christians as people that basically see the world as an evolutionary accident.

Think for a moment about what you have just said.

First of all if something good happens, it doesn't follow that it was from God. Secondly it doesn't follow that if something bad happened it is not from God.

The true issue is that you are using the terms, "good," and "bad" according to an objective standard which your own ideology says does not exist. (contradiction)

In fact a correct understanding of biblical theology isn't that God cannot do something that from a sinner's relative perspective, is "bad". The bible says that God is light and in Him is no darkness whatsoever. (1.John.1) This means there are no dark motives in God.

So then if God does something bad, you believe that it must follow that He is bad. But if God does something which is PERCEIVED as bad, logically it can only follow that He does it for GOOD reasons.

This is summed up somewhat in Romans 8.28 which I will paraphrase as I can't remember the exact words; "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."

But the problem is the secularist, the non-believer, seems to think God is working good for all people, but in fact it says God only works good from bad things for those who know and love God. His people.

So then when a hurricane happens, that is not caused by God, but in fact only represents His PERMISSIVE will. The results of a fallen world have been allowed to UNFOLD by God because mankind chose to go it alone without God.

Percy writes:

Hurricane Michael blasts Florida? Not God's problem, those people must have sinned, so the hurricane is a good thing

No, Jesus said that when the tower fell in his day it was NOT because the people had some special sin worse than other people. (He implied it was random)

That would represent a GROSS DISTORTION of the Christian position. I propose this is merely how you PERCEIVE what Christians believe. That is because you can't have any concept of the spiritual because as the bible says, the natural man can't discern spiritual things.

So it's not that it's "not God's problem" it's that God has chosen to not save people from the hurricane because as Jesus said, because of an unbelieving world, the world will get worse and worse, and these things will continue. So it would be a contradiction of Christ's words if all bad weather was stopped when He predicted it would continue and get worse.

People died and were sick WHEN Jesus was one earth. But He did heal people, and if God is FOR sickness, then why would He heal people through Christ? (a contradiction)?

No it's not a good thing that a hurricane happened, but if unbelievers turn to God and say "please stop this" that's hypocrisy. Humans have a long history of only turning to God when they're in trouble.

God has made His plan clear. He did not come to save flesh, He came to give eternal life, and in that kingdom there will no longer be and more "pain, and God will wipe away all tears from eyes." (paraphrased from Revelation).

So random things do happen, yes. POST-Eden, God took His hands off the system, to a degree. He has permission to do that as soon as people sin. God is not obliged to save all people, nor does He say He will protect us from injury or death in any specific circumstance. Even in the OT people were killed by wild animals.

So when a "bad" thing happens, there isn't necessarily any moral evil tied to it. A natural disaster is a random event, it had nothing to do with God unless He specifically claims it such as with Noah's flood.

Also, God is "not a man" (numbers 23), meaning we cannot attach a human, relative moral system to God. Nowhere does it say that God can't kill for example. That would be absurd to say "it is immoral for the one who created all to destroy it." LOL. what a simplistic viewpoint, so typical of relative moralists, who basically think their own set of relative opinions are some type of objectively perfect standard.

Percy writes:

Based on what evidence?

The only evidence we have for God's character is from scripture. That is all we have available. So we have to see what it says directly or implies. God is omniscient, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, sovereign, and He is love. (I did not say "He is all-loving").

So then an infinite mind, with infinite imagination can't even be grasped. From Isaiah where it says, "His understanding is unsearchable" (paraphrase)

It also says in the same book. "for my ways are not your ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts, for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my thoughts higher than your thoughts." (paraphrase).

So then it seems a pretty obvious inference that what Phat said would be true, God's motives, desires, plans and thoughts are way beyond man.

This is indirectly evidenced in what is made, through the science of biomimetics. That is to say, when humans are FOXED, they look to the design in nature and find that there are superior designs which they can only understand by studying in depth. Then they plagiarise the design because it is far more optimal and intelligent than their own.

So then to ask an enginner how to solve problem X he may say, "it can't be done", but then he may find out there is a way, by studying the design in organisms, showing that God thoughts are higher than His.

Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 661 by Percy, posted 10-18-2018 6:29 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 664 by Phat, posted 10-19-2018 10:08 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded
 Message 666 by Percy, posted 10-19-2018 10:25 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

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