Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith

But the message exists with or without Jesus or God. Paul said himself that the Gentiles had the message.

When you get an Amber Alert, does it matter who sent the message?

I get that. I'm thinking this out and could basically argue either way...
On the one hand, jars argument that if the stories were simply tales told around a campfire they would still have value could be argued successfully.I suppose I will concede your point for now...though something in me wants to acknowledge the necessity of getting saved and receiving the messenger first.....Whereas you are eternally holding out for evidence.I can't fathom being a lifelong skeptic and yet advocating doing the message sent by a non-existent Ghost.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

It's because the message is the universal one of love thy neighbour and do as you would be done by. After that you can go fishing with a free conscience.It's not unique to Christianity, it's got nothing to do with ghosts and gods, it's got nothing to do with floods, goats, churches, religions and being saved; it's about DOING THE RIGHT BLOODY THING WITH YOUR LIFE. HERE AND NOW.If you need me to I'll put that in orange.

I don't know why you are all arguing. What Phat quoted is standard Christian (Protestant) biblical doctrine: We are SAVED by faith alone in Christ alone, not by our good works or good deeds. Good works FOLLOW faith and validate faith but you can't be saved by them. And yes it is PRIDE to try to be saved by your good deeds, as if you were good enough through your own goodness to be saved. Scripture says plainly nobody is good enough for that, you cannot earn salvation, it is the gift of God "lest any man should boast." THEN you do good works.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

We're arguing because your primitive belief system condemns almost all of humanity that has ever been and will ever be to everlasting hell. And that, girl, is total and obvious crap.

You are free to prefer other religions or think Christianity is crap, but you are not free to misrepresent what Christianity says, which is that we are saved by faith and not by works.

You have a mediaeval view of what Christianity says; you're version is corrupt. I'll take one of the other versions, thanks all the same.

Completely wrong, you've got it exactly backwards. The medieval view, based on the pagan corruptions of the Roman Church, is that we are saved by works; my view, which is what Phat quoted from Got Questions, is the biblical view that was recovered by the Protestant Reformation.ABE: And of course you prefer that point of view, which is exactly what the article at Got Questions said is generally true of fallen humanity: we all like the idea that our own goodness can earn us salvation, it suits our pride and our need for control*, but that gives us the glory only God should have, which is His if He saves us. As Luther put it, God's contribution to our salvation is all of it, our own contribution is our sinfulness, period.abe *This need for control means some of us are often insecure about whether we've actually been saved or not even when we believe Jesus paid for our sins and we've also had many signs and reasons to believe that we are. We're aware of our sinfulness and it's just hard to believe He would choose *me.* Some people on the other hand have a real certainty about it, a strong memory of their sins being forgiven. But even if we tried to earn salvation by good works I think the same would be true for some of us, as no amount of good works would ever reassure us it was enough. Since Martin Luther was a Roman Catholic Augustinian monk who believed he had to earn his salvation, that plagued him for years: he was always aware that his sins kept overwhelming his good works and always confessing his sins at great length. It was only when he finally saw in the scripture that God saves us, forgives our sins when we believe in Jesus' death on the cross for us, and that we live by faith and not by sight, that he was finally able to be reassured.In other words it isn't exactly the simple believism others sometimes impute to us.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I have it the way I want it. You have it the way you want it. That's the beauty of belief, you can believe what suits.What suits me to believe about your God is the message of Jesus, which is - with a few blips - universally good, though utterly derivative and fictionalised. I prefer to think of Christians as decent people trying to live decent lives. My confirmation bias is geared towards accepting the decent bit of the bible and rejecting the horror and blatant immorality. I'd rather think of Christians in a nice way than the way you project them, thanks all the same.

Not in my world you can't. I believe what I've learned to be the truth and make up not one iota of it.You left this part out: This is historical fact, nobody makes up historical fact, not even you. What on earth does this have to do with salvation by faith versus works?But as I said, believe the pagan Roman Catholic salvation by works if you like, although speaking of immorality they're no doubt the champs with their popes who had multiple children by mistresses, and their murders of rivals, and sexual misbehavior between priests and nuns because of their evil vow of celibacy, and today's child molesting priests due partly to the same evil doctrine, not to mention the murdering of millions of innocent people they called "heretics" for hundreds of years. But they do teach salvation by works and send their people to Hell because of it, so if you prefer that doctrine feel free to embrace it.Exactly what horrible immoralities are you talking about though that you say I project here? Not baking a cake for a gay wedding? You seem to agree with us about abortion so although Percy thinks it's a great evil to oppose it you apparently don't. Wanting to keep jihadists out of the country? Otherwise I have no idea what supposed immoralities I project here.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This is demonstrably not true. What follows from your brand of Christian faith is hatred of immigrants, Muslims and LGBT's, love of instruments of death, tyranny over the rights of others over their own bodies, and taking away affordable healthcare.You've latched onto a religion that tells you heaven is reserved for those whose lives are filled with hate, repression, denial and death.--Percy

Gosh, I hope I dont have the same brand! I have no inner nor justifiable hatred that I know of...

I have no such hatreds.But not to lose sight of the topic, Christian salvation is not by good works but by faith, and good works are the consequence of faith.And again, what you call good, God calls evil. Abortion is evil, allowing potentially dangerous jihadists access to innocent "infidels" is evil, encouraging LGBT's to live a lie about their nature and force everybody else to support that lie is evil, and support of illegal immigration is evil.And again, I have no feeling of hatred toward any of the people you list. None whatever, I hope the best for all of them, I just disagree with you about what the best is.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You believe what you've chosen to believe, other Christians have chosen something else. You think you're right, they think they're right. It doesn't matter much, you're all making it up as you go along. Why would you think I believe any of that nonsense? Or any of your nonsense? It made up childish rubbish. But the general Christian message - which is not remotely unique to Christianity - is valid regardless of the crap organised religions have dumped on it; do as you would be done by and loving your neighbour is the kind of thing I prefer to believe that actual Christians believe.