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Author Topic:   Honour Amongst Christians
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 82 of 308 (450515)
01-22-2008 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by iano
01-22-2008 6:16 AM


Belief changes the equation
iano writes:
I would have thought any definition of free will would include the notion that a person is faced with some kind of balanced choice. And that they could choose either way. A person trapped in a blazing room and who jumps out of the window of the 43rd floor cannot be said to be making a free willed choice to jump. Have you ever stood close to an approaching fire? The fire presses you back - you have no choice to stand your ground. You must jump out the window.
Let's suppose the conviction of God is equivilent to a fire. And that because of it you will ask for forgiveness (jump). No choice about it at that point.
Do you believe coercion to be dishonorable?
Do you believe that God will throw into Hell those who don't accept His Son as savior?
Once you believe in this particular God and that He will do what He says, you are now being coerced into accepting His Son.
The Word says: "Accept Jesus or Go To Hell" (my paraphrase).
Sounds like coercion to me. Very similar to "Buy my life insurance or I will burn down your house".
I guess coercion is an honorable tactic according to you.
Edited by LinearAq, : Capitalizing pronouns that refer to iano's God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by iano, posted 01-22-2008 6:16 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by iano, posted 01-24-2008 8:09 AM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 137 of 308 (450860)
01-24-2008 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by iano
01-24-2008 8:09 AM


Re: Belief changes the equation
iano writes:
Coercion you were free to escape from is no coercion at all.
I am free to escape from Hell without accepting Jesus as my savior? I don't understand.
From my reading of the Bible and talking to different preachers, the only way to escape Hell is to accept Jesus.
It's Jesus or "burn baby burn".
Maybe you are speaking of being free to believe or not. How does that keep me from Hell?
If God is real and He is the God you believe in, then my belief seems irrelevant except that it will still land me in Hell. The difference is that I don't believe the choice is real and you do. Therefore, your belief in that God puts you in the position of being coerced into accepting the Savior in order to obtain forgiveness. God refuses to forgive, a thing He could easily do, unless you accept His Son. For believers, it's Jesus or Hell. Serve me or die. How is this not coercion? How is this honorable?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by iano, posted 01-24-2008 8:09 AM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by ICANT, posted 01-24-2008 8:43 PM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 151 of 308 (451004)
01-25-2008 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by ICANT
01-24-2008 8:43 PM


Re: Belief changes the equation
I have a question: How do you get from this:
LinearAq writes:
coerced into accepting the Savior in order to obtain forgiveness.
To This?
LinearAq writes:
Serve me or die.
We are talking about honor aren't we?
The "Serve me or die" was another way of expressing God's requirement that we serve Him or be delicately placed in a warm (a mere 2500+ degrees) lake. Basically, it is a threat. Something I don't consider honorable.
Just because accepting His Son rewards you with Heaven doesn't make the threat any less real. It's not like God is not in control of Hell. Hell, He built the place with the full knowledge that He was going to put people there if they didn't serve Him.
Apparantly you believe that threats of eternal punishment ARE honorable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by ICANT, posted 01-24-2008 8:43 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by ICANT, posted 01-25-2008 8:01 PM LinearAq has not replied

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