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Author Topic:   Are You an Authoritarian?
RAZD
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Message 12 of 181 (501672)
03-07-2009 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-07-2009 9:10 AM


The book can also be accessed by chapter here
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

I read it two years ago (from this thread by Coragyps), and I thought he had a valid point then and still do. It is the authoritarians than enabled schrubbia et al after all. I loved where he got the people to play war games after dividing them (unobtrusively) into RWA types and non-RWA types.

quote:
You have to admire those who challenged the law and the majority’s view by protesting for women’s abortion rights, for animal rights, or to abolish school prayer.

Um, no I don't have to admire them, no matter how much I concur with their position. They can still be perfectly despicable individuals.

I also had a lot of 3's because I don't feel absolute answers are justified either:

quote:
There are many radical, immoral people in our country today, who are trying to ruin it for their own godless purposes, whom the authorities should put out of action.

There certainly are some immoral people whome the authorities should prosecute when they break laws, and should not get any special deal just because they are "radical, immoral people"

I scored 45

After the scoring is done he has a discussion of the results that should be read before anyone starts comparing results:

quote:
Let me give you three compelling reasons why you should treat your personal score with a grain of salt. First, psychological tests make mistakes about individuals, which is what you happen to be, I’ll bet. Even the best instruments, such as the best IQ tests, get it wrong sometimes--as I think most people know. Thus the RWA scale can’t give sure-thing diagnoses of individuals.

Second, how you responded to the items depended a lot on how you interpreted them. You may have writhed in agony wondering, “What does he mean by _______?” as you answered.

Third, you knew what the items were trying to measure, didn’t you, you rascal! The RWA scale is a personality test disguised as an attitude survey, but I’ll bet you saw right through it.


The second one is why I had some trouble with the "honor the ways of our forefathers" phrase -- does he mean the founding fathers of this country? I took it that way.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : link


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
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Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 28 of 181 (501818)
03-07-2009 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by CosmicChimp
03-07-2009 8:50 PM


Re: 65
I believe he goes into this in greater detail later in the book, and generally uses a score of 90 and above to differentiate the {more authoritarian} from the {less authoritarian} so it is not used as a cut and dried scale.

And, for Kuresu (Message 22), he also talks about the moderating effect of education, with the children of 100 and up parents scoring 90s.

So you are moderate.

Curiously I find that an extreme low score (sorry Subbie) is also authoritarian in reactionary ways. Or as Subbie implies, black and white thinking.

Where it gets fun is where he puts groups of students through an exercise with world governments and politics. He put all high scores in the same game, and they rapidly ended up in nuclear world wars that destroyed the earth, even after a "reset" to try again.

Meanwhile the groups of low scores together they resolved issues and formed world governments.

And then we look at the middle east crisis ... anyone want to guess on the scores for the participants there?

For some strange reason I am much happier with Obama on the red button than Bushie.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
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RAZD
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Message 46 of 181 (501874)
03-08-2009 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by subbie
03-08-2009 1:20 AM


Re: 65
Hi Subbie, from the grave position taken ...

quote:
is also authoritarian in reactionary ways. Or as Subbie implies, black and white thinking.

I'd be curious to hear your reasoning on that.

Simple, rather than come to one's own conclusions, to adapt those of radicals, accepting them as authorities.

Perhaps I just distrust certainty. But why I had a lot of 3's instead of 4's

{abe}

I couldn't completely agree 100% with statement 13, because some animal rights activists are dangerous morons.

And this is why I had a lot of 3's

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : abe


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
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Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 64 of 181 (538301)
12-05-2009 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Thugpreacha
12-05-2009 5:47 AM


Re: Great Book & Very Relevant
Interesting. I've gone down to a 41 from the previous 45 ... but there is likely some variance from day to day in responses people will make.

It seems to me that the tenor of some questions have also changed by changing times:

17. There are many radical, immoral people in our country today, who are trying to ruin it for their own godless purposes, whom the authorities should put out of action.

I think about the immoral people that caused the Enron debacle, the immoral people of the Shrubbia misadministration, and the immoral banks and financial institutions that caused the current financial crisis by caring more for personal gain than whether the loan\mortgages were good ideas.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
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Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 77 of 181 (567982)
07-03-2010 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by DBlevins
07-01-2010 10:16 PM


the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
Hi DBlevins,

I wish I could remember the url of the 4-square test which was a very similar type of test. It was quite long but measured 4 different attributes and then plotted you on a grid along with ghandi, hitler, clinton, etc.

quote:

The usual understanding of anarchism as a left wing ideology does not take into account the neo-liberal "anarchism" championed by the likes of Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman and America's Libertarian Party, which couples social Darwinian right-wing economics with liberal positions on most social issues. Often their libertarian impulses stop short of opposition to strong law and order positions, and are more economic in substance (ie no taxes) so they are not as extremely libertarian as they are extremely right wing. On the other hand, the classical libertarian collectivism of anarcho-syndicalism ( libertarian socialism) belongs in the bottom left hand corner.

In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is necessarily "right wing", with the examples of Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot and Stalin. Similarly Hitler, on an economic scale, was not an extreme right-winger. His economic policies were broadly Keynesian, and to the left of some of today's Labour parties. If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground.


Wonder where the basic "tea party" platform sits ...

Ahh, found the url for the grid test. I actually liked it better. Politicalcompass.org

I see they have updated the questions to keep them current. My score is still about the same however

quote:
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.03

That's below and to the left of Ghandi, where I was before.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : updated signature with extra spaces removed


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 88 of 181 (568199)
07-04-2010 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by bluescat48
07-04-2010 8:20 PM


Compiled political box 2D spectrum picture ... so far
Hi bluescat48, and others that have posted their scores

This is what I get for a compiled result:

So far it looks like Cassiopeia ...
http://chandra.harvard.edu/...constellations/cassiopeia.html

It will be interesting to see the spectrum of results from other members of the debate.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : subtitle


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
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Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 93 of 181 (568274)
07-05-2010 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by cavediver
07-05-2010 2:52 AM


Re: Compiled political box 2D spectrum picture ... so far
Hi cavediver,

To me, it looks like someone has bought a new Go board but doesn't know how to play

You'd have to talk to brother xongsmith, but IIRC that would be 19x19 yes?

now it looks more like the little dipper ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
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Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 109 of 181 (568405)
07-05-2010 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Percy
07-05-2010 3:58 PM


New composite
Sorry, Percy, but I can't chart that. That's out of bounds.

Enjoy.

ps -- go to http://politicalcompass.org/ and click on TAKE THE TEST

Edited by RAZD, : added link


we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
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Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 124 of 181 (568758)
07-14-2010 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by ringo
07-07-2010 3:26 PM


Hey, welcome back Ringo!

Long time no see and missed

What were your numbers so I can put them on the composite chart?

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
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Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 125 of 181 (568760)
07-14-2010 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by dronestar
07-07-2010 12:49 PM


Re: Me and Ghandi meditating in a tree . . .
Thanks dronestar,

That makes the composite picture update look like this:

(that smilie represents Percy ...)

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
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Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 130 of 181 (601252)
01-19-2011 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by RAZD
07-14-2010 9:33 PM


new composite
Adding the posts since Dronestar and ones found on Politcal Compass, Political Identity Crisis and What is Your Worldview? to the ones previously compiled here I have a new composite image:

(that smilie still represents Percy ...)

Note that this shows bias for those willing to provide their results, and thus it is a self-selecting sample of the population here at EvC, which is a self-selecting sample of the population at large. Most of those that have verbally refused to answer would, imho, likely score similar to Buz.

There could also be a bias in the questions, with results showing people generally left and lower than a less biased scoring, but the results are relative in any event and do not represent any hard and fast score.

Enjoy.

list of results: if you were missed let me know.

Politcal Compass
Hyroglyphx Message 1 ec= +2.62 & soc= -4.97
Dr Adequate Message 2 ec= -3.6 & soc= -3.5 (approx from graph)
Wounded King Message 3 ec= =7.00 & soc= -6.62
Huntard Message 4 ec= -3.7 & soc= +1.3 (approx from graph)
jar Message 6 ec= -6.88 & soc= -5.23
Phat Message 7 ec= -3.2 & soc= -3.0 (approx from graph)
frako Message 8 ec= -5.9 & soc= -7.8 (approx from graph)
nwr Message 10 ec= -3.8 & soc= -4.8 (approx from graph)
ApostateAbeMessage 18 ec= -2.6 & soc= +2.6 (approx from graph)
Mr JackMessage 13 ec= -6.62 & soc= -5.49
jon Message 21 ec= -5.5 & soc= -3.1 (approx from graph)
ZenMonkey Message 27 ec= -6.6 & soc= -4.8 (approx from graph)
Minnemooseus Message 28 ec= -4.7 & soc= -7.5 (approx from graph)
Buzsaw Message 38 ec= 2.00 & soc= 1.08
xongsmith Message 41 ec= -6.0 & soc= -6.1

Are You an Authoritarian?
anglagard Message 30 ec=-4.75 & soc= -7.79
RAZD Message 77 ec= -7.62 & soc= -7.03
cavediver Message 80 ec= -1.75 & soc= -5.53
coyote Message 82 ec= -3.3 & soc= +0.8 (approx from graph)
Huntard Message 85 ec= -4.8 & soc= +2.8 (approx from graph)
bluescat48 Message 87 ec= -4.7 & soc= -7.2 (approx from graph)
Theodoric Message 89 ec= -7.50 & soc= -5.54
jar Message 90 ec= -5.50 & soc= -5.03
Hyroglyphx Message 101 ec= -4.4 & soc= +5.3 (approx from graph)
Wounded King Message 102 ec= -7.00 & soc= -6.62
AZPaul Message 104 ec= -0.38 & soc= -2.97
hooah212002 Message 111 ec= -5.62 & soc= -6.26
CosmicChimp Message 112 ec= -6.2 & soc= -9.9 (approx from graph)
dronester Message 113 ec= -6.00 & soc= -5.08
DevilsAdvocate Message 126 ec= -4.00 & soc= -4.05
Coragyps Message 127 ec= -7.62 & soc= -5.88
Dr Adequate Message 129 ec= -4.12 & soc= -4.36

Political Identity Crisis
Madfish Message 20 ec= -7.63 & soc= -7.95
brennakimi Message 31 ec= -6.13 & soc= -7.33
Michael Message 32 ec= -6.38 & soc= -6.77
RAZD Message 33 ec= -8.63 & soc= -7.69

What is Your Worldview?
Hangdawg13 Message 54 ec= ~0 & soc= ~-3 (from comments)
contracycle Message 63 ec= -8.88 & soc= -5.69
ifen Message 66 ec= -5.88 & soc= -4.97
Phat Message 67 ec= -2.00 & soc= -1.49


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 177 of 181 (776821)
01-20-2016 5:46 PM


Trump (and the GOP)
The One Weird Trait That Predicts Whether You’re a Trump Supporter

quote:
If I asked you what most defines Donald Trump supporters, what would you say? They’re white? They’re poor? They’re uneducated?

You’d be wrong.

In fact, I’ve found a single statistically significant variable predicts whether a voter supports Trump—and it’s not race, income or education levels: It’s authoritarianism.

That’s right, Trump’s electoral strength—and his staying power—have been buoyed, above all, by Americans with authoritarian inclinations. And because of the prevalence of authoritarians in the American electorate, among Democrats as well as Republicans, it’s very possible that Trump’s fan base will continue to grow.

My finding is the result of a national poll I conducted in the last five days of December under the auspices of the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, sampling 1,800 registered voters across the country and the political spectrum. Running a standard statistical analysis, I found that education, income, gender, age, ideology and religiosity had no significant bearing on a Republican voter’s preferred candidate. Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism, though the former was far more significant than the latter.


We see the ugly pandering to xenophobia and the self aggrandizement and exaggerate jingoism typical of authoritarians.

Remember too, how the authoritarian test subjects tended to end up antagonizing each other and launching nuclear war while the non-authoritarian test subjects tended to end up with working together for world peace.

Be careful what you wish for in a president ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20069
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 180 of 181 (776867)
01-21-2016 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by foreveryoung
01-20-2016 8:27 PM


Re: Trump (and the GOP)
How can you be authoritarian without holding power? ...

It's more of a psychological profile than a matter of having or holding power.

See Message 1 for how "authoritarian is defined and take the test, if you are interested in seeing where you fit.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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