Does prophecy support the Bible

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You'd think he would, if he wanted his prophecies to be taken seriously.

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Wasn't he supposed to be all-knowing? Didn't he realize that bad translations would cause his prophecy to be misunderstood, unless he clarified?

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No, rather he, being divine, knew and prophesied that there would be scoffers and mockers in the latter days who would refuse to acknowledge the signs of the times when the prophecies were to be fulfilled in the latter days.

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Not really. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Christ says, "this will be preached to all nations." Those who believe in Christ's divinity say, "come on, let's go preach to all nations, so the prophecy will be true!" And lo and behold, it is preached to all nations.

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Dan, I thought you were more intelligent than that. This's not a very brilliant argument for your Bibliophobic agenda. Thousands of Christians have given their lives and died as martyrs in places like the jungles of Africa, New Ginineau and South America to get the gospel of Jesus to these tribes and nations. This's not a two millenial ongoing game or popularity contest for Jesus. It's a self scacrificial love agenda by those who know the resurrected Jesus is coming back and who are not selfishly looking only to save themselves, but to allow all to hear this good news and get in on the blessings of Heaven and escape the horrors of Hell.

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3) Jesus was dead-on correct, and the rapture is nigh.

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Bingo, except the rapture won't come til after the sun n moon are darkened by about a third and a whole lot more Christians are martyred by the 10 horned beast who "makes war with the saints and overcomes them." See the words of Jesus and the prophet John in Mark 13: 24,25 and Rev. 13:7.Geting the gospel to all nations, tribes and tongues would be impossible without the industrial revolution and now satelite TV and computers as well as world travel as it is.As I stated before the generation problem is a no brainer for serious students of the Bible. Jesus stated all these things which were to come to pass including Jerusalem again removed from the gentiles with the fig tree budding and all. It was obviously referring to the generation that sees these things which would not pass or die off. Again, you can argue till Jesus comes about failure, but the fulfillment just keeps on marching on and the skeptic's doom draws near.

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Israel didn?t follow the Lord with all their heart so they were removed from the land they were promised

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But several of the prophets including Jesus have them returning to the land and as promised to Abraham, it will eventually include all the land from the River of Egypt near Gaza all the way up to the Euphrates which is presently in part of Syria. Humanly speaking, they should've been driven into the sea handily many times over by now, but no, they're in the land TO STAY, and this's not the end. They've more land to acquire but likely Jesus will be here to finish the ocupation and set the boundaries as prophesied. Armageddon edges ever nearer!!

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How does it feel to be excited about the prospect of massive human suffering and death? Come to think of it, I remember. That was me as a ten-year-old, reading Revelation and only enjoying it because I could not comprehend the horrors it forecasts for humanity. How a decent human being could be excited about the infliction of agony upon the entire human race is utterly beyond me.

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It's disingenuous and meanspirited to imply that those of us who believe as we see the end time events happening and arising on the horizon of the world scene are happy about the death and destruction which is escalating as we speak. Also to imply that we are indecent human beings for acknowledging what the prophecies clearly have predicted is rather stupid and insolent of you, Zephyr.After all, it is the Christians who are the majority of the victims of tribulation in places like the Sudan, Indonesia, Pakistan and other Muslim strongholds as well as the millions who died last century at the hands of their communist dictatorship governments. Why should we be extatic about that??The hope we look for is the resurrection/rapture when the angels gather us up to meet our Christ in the clouds to ever be with him. The suffering and hatred we experience from the world will be worth it all.

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As far as Armageddon edging ever nearer, the first generation of Christians was as convinced as you are. So were the hundreds of generations that have gone to their graves since then. I may be concerned about where the human race is headed, but the events of John's supposed vision are the last thing on my mind.

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The prophecies were'nt yet fulfilled. They began to be fulfilled at the invasion of Jerusalem and the persecution of both Jew and Christians. The ones who read the prophecies would not have expected Armageddon until other stuff came to pass.

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I wonder why he, being all-loving, wouldn't want to save the scoffers and mockers as well by spelling things out in plain language.

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Like I said, it's a no brainer for ernest students of the Bible. If you haven't an ear to hear and a phobic towards the supernatural, no matter how he puts it, you'll find fault. He expects you to be able to at least put two n two together and see there's four, so to speak. This's no harder than that to figure out if you put it all together objectively. I was able to comprehend a lot of this stuff at age 10 and it wasn't blind faith either. About then Israel was put on the map as prophesied and I said, hey, something big's going on here, like this two n two is equaling four.

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Hey, I got nothin' against Bibles. I just don't want 'em enlisting in the army, teaching my kids, or thinkin' they can get married.

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Bibliophobic? What the Hell does that even mean?

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Bibles get'n married and enlisting?? Now surely you know what Bibliophobic means. It's a self explanitory buzism, but certainly not originated by me.

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And bully for them. But it has fuck-all to do with whether it's a prophecy of any meaning, or whether it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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See, this's how you sweep all prophecy under the rug when you can't refute fair n square. Self fulfilling doesn't hack it. It's real here and now supernatural fulfillment. Too many fulfilled and emerging to skepticize away. They're here and you simply don't want to deal with them or acknowledge reality. You're mind is programmed to deal with materialistic impossibilities like intricate design emerging of itself but when it comes to doable Biblical prophesied fulfillment stuff you read about in your newspaper, your ear is shut off to it. To acknowledge it would mean you've a accountability to your maker and that would mean the necessity of repentance and submission to a higher power.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-21-2003]

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The prophecies are not clear in any way, shape or form. They are very demonstrably malleable, and their interpretation by the faithful has been altered to fit current events for the last two thousand years. You know as well as I (if you have bothered to inform yourself) that the early Christians expected the Messiah's return just as "soon" as you do. As for the rest, it's a Friday night. Accordingly, in my stupidity and insolence, I find it a far more entertaining prospect to go get hammered than to bother with the same old pronunciations from you. I'm Audi....

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Jesus in his Olivet Discourse in Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 24 warned not to be deceived into thinking the time for certain end time prophecies to be fulfilled were emminent. In Mark 13:7, for example, Jesus warned the apostles not to be deceived into thinking the end was at hand. He explicitly explained that many things must first come to pass. Then he later reiterated same by stating that the end would not come until his gospel was preached worldwide as well as all the other stuff which should come first.So with the apostle Paul. Note in II Thessalonians 2:1,2 where he warned against folks thinking the gathering of the Christians (rapture/resurrection) was at hand. He said antirchrist and apostacy must first come. He used strong terms like, "Let no man beguile you in any wise." This alluding to the end and "day of Christ" (meaning his return) not being imminent.

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Buz, I predict that within the next five minutes, I will be drinking a beer.

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Hang on a sec...

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"HEY RACHEL? CAN YOU GRAB ME A BEER?"

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...

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"Aw, thanks hon."

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*sip*

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I hope you're ready to acknowledge my divine powers, Buz. We wouldn't want to think your ear is shut to my obvious prophetic nature. Don't try to sweep it under the rug, just because you can't refute the fact that I correctly predicted the fact that I would drink a beer.

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If you ignore the fact that all that happened was that I asked someone to do something

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Dan, I'm quite sure that if I or Syamsu were to resort to the utterly sensless debate tactics in the science and evo threads you're resorting to here, we'd find ourselves banished to the FFA real quick like by administration. Don't you think? The 5 minute beer analogy doesn't even begin to come close to what would be considered prophecy by definition. How many beers did you have btw?? Get back to me when you sober up. OK?

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I think you're partially right, Buz. Dan is being just a little too flippant to get his point across.
However, he is saying that some prophecies just aren't impressive at all. His is an extreme case of that. You and he differ by where you draw the line. Why don't you both see if you can find a line you can agree on rather than arguing over the individual prophecies.

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Reconcelliation is nice, Ned, but for me, forum debate is more about arriving at truth than finding some way of reconcilliation with folks who resort to most anything they can grasp for rather than to concede anything.

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It would help you understand our objections if you were to elucidate the definition of prophecy, and how you feel Dan's example doesn't qualify.

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It's almost, I say almost amusing to observe how you Bibliophobics defend one another and rush to support and defend one another, no matter how ridiculous the cause. However I do understand that any admission to the supernatural, no matter how great or small totally destroys the premise of so much you are staking on for explanation to existence of life, design and human destiny.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-22-2003]

Come, let us reason together. How many of the thousands of cults, sects and religions on the planet could predict world wide coverage to all nations and tribes, either in Jesus's day or today and expect to get fulfillment? Bear in mind that Jesus never presented a rosy life with his religion. He promised persecution, and hatred from the world. Bear in mind also that you same people deny he produced any supernatural miracles to draw a crowd. And some of you people want to stand up a 5 minute beer thing to this? Go figure......again.

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Thank you for your observations, buz. Could you now return to the topic at hand?

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With all due respect Ned, last I read, the title of the thread is "Does prophecy support the Bible?" Isn't that what we're debating here in these posts??

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Bear in mind that you have nothing but redacted, harmonized, and filtered 2nd-hand hearsay of Jesus, by authors who spoke seriously of suicidal pigs, virgin births, and strolling zombies.

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You mean the supernatural of evil don't you? Why didn't you just say so? Look, if you want to address the Bible, this is what's in it, the supernatural. If you can't deal with that, I suggest you go and debate about genes or something.

Super good post, Appolyon. These truth rejectors wouldn't admit a prophecy if their life and soul depended upon it. They're enjoying running their own lives without accountability to their maker, but he'll have the last laugh when the fullness of end time calamity comes upon this apostate world. I hope you stick around.

Relevant prophecy: Prophesied when all anyone knew about for money was gold and silver. There will come a time when money/exchange medium will be via marks and numbers worldwide.

Relevant prophecy: There will come a time when all the nations of the world will view certain persons in one city of the world. This is a Biblical prophecy in Revelation, chapter 11.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-24-2003]