Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 67 (9078 total)
106 online now:
kjsimons, nwr, PaulK, Phat, Tangle, vimesey (6 members, 100 visitors)
Newest Member: harveyspecter
Post Volume: Total: 895,050 Year: 6,162/6,534 Month: 355/650 Week: 125/278 Day: 23/24 Hour: 3/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Transition from chemistry to biology
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2415 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 258 of 415 (504556)
03-30-2009 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Peg
03-24-2009 12:07 AM


Lets say we pull a fish out of a fishtank and allow it to suffocate, why can't we breath life back into it again even if all its organs are in completely intact?

Once blood stops flowing, cellular death begins. Some cells take longer than others but once this process starts, organs start to shut down and soon after decomposition begins (by all the bacteria/microbes living in and on the body). It is brain/cellular death that is currently irreversible mainly due to the sheer numbers of cells that exist in the body. If we could somehow reverse the cellular damage and the brain death very quickly before decomposition begins, than yes this could be a possibility. However, with our current technology it is impossible.

Life is more then just chemical elements, environment and physics.

Can you provide tangible, verifiable evidence supporting your statement?


For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Peg, posted 03-24-2009 12:07 AM Peg has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2415 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 296 of 415 (513854)
07-02-2009 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by RevCrossHugger
07-01-2009 5:14 PM


RevCrossHugger writes:

I agree, (that life would happen given enough time) however time is limited. Very limited of one accepts the Big Bang model as correct. One universe one try, around 13b to 15b years...hmmmm'...

Rev,

I would have concur to w/ Perdition that given the number of galaxies in the known, observable universe(not counting the possibility of nearly an infinite # of multiple-universes) (approx 1011- 1012 galaxies) with the averaged number of stars in each galaxies (1011 to 1012) for a grand total of 1022-24 stars (that is approx 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the known universe). If we averaged that there are 3 planets around each star (some stars have no planets, some have many more than 3) than this would figure to be approx 3021 planets in the universe. Estimates with the 300+ known extasolar planets we have discovered within the past decade are that nearly half of them could be condusive at some point in the main sequence evolution of the star. Even if we are ultra-conservitive and say only 1/4 of these solar systems have 1 planet that could have at one point in its history have potentially harbored life. Considering that the universe is approx 15 billion years old, the average size of the planet is the size of the earth and with over 221 potentially life-habitable planets, is life really unique only to Earth? Or is this just a form of anthropocentrism.

BTW, I went to college near Elizabethton, TN. Very beautiful place to live. My wife and I just spent time up there at a B&B on the other side of the mountains in Boone earlier this year (she's from Hickory, NC).

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by RevCrossHugger, posted 07-01-2009 5:14 PM RevCrossHugger has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2415 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 305 of 415 (514113)
07-03-2009 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by bluescat48
07-03-2009 12:33 PM


How do you know this. How can one know what happens in a galaxy 5 billion light years away?

One does not even have to look this far away. We are not even 100% sure that life does not exist in some locations in our own solar system i.e. the liquid oceans underneath the ice of Europa. the possible liquid methane on Titan or even remnants of life in the dry lake beds of Mars.

We have no idea if life does or does not exist in the next solar system over much less the 221 other potentially earth-like planets in the observable universe.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by bluescat48, posted 07-03-2009 12:33 PM bluescat48 has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2415 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 311 of 415 (514147)
07-04-2009 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 308 by themasterdebator
07-03-2009 10:38 PM


Re: Interactions
TMD writes:

The ultimate force that got them together in the first place(although its not really a force in the physics sense) would be the energy from the sun. It provided the heat and as chemistry has shown us, the right molecules+heat=chemical reaction. The early earth was a sea of these right molecules constantly reacting with each other(about 10^33 or so molecules, an extremely massive number way beyond any human comprehension) and eventually the right molecules reacted to create the molecules i mentioned earlier. These molecules competed with each other and evolved to best get resources.

So we could probably say that a very rough estimate of potentially reactions of the right molecules to produce life on all the potentially life-condusive planets in the observable universe is something in the ballpark of 1033 (reacting molecules) x 221 = 2054 give or take a couple of x. Now multiply that by 15 billion years and expand this out past the size of obervable universe than we are talking about a number probably larger than googleplex (10google) and the realistic answer is LIFE IS NOT JUST POSSIBLE BUT INEVITABLE given a habitable planet w/ the nearly infinite supply of energy of a star.


For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by themasterdebator, posted 07-03-2009 10:38 PM themasterdebator has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022