Honour Amongst Christians

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Now you make up your own rules if you want too.

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Everybody has, and always has, "made up their own rules".What, do you actually think you know the mind of God and what He wants, or something?Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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News Flash: once in the lake of fire you don't get out to spend time with God. Sorry.

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Then God is nothing but a vidictive, sadistic asshole that has far more in common with the vengeful, spiteful, petulant pagan gods of old than the "God is love" characterization modern Christians provide.Some horrible, abusive parent God is, able to inflict excruciating torture and agony on His children and not be fussed.Your God seems to be a sociopath.

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Guess what just because they made up their own rules that did not change Gods rules.

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Since humans are flawed and cannot know the mind nor will of God, none of us can say that we know what God's rules are.

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Yep to what He wants I got His List of wants, do's and don'ts.

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Who gets to decide exactly which of God's wants, do's and dont's are really from God, or if they are important to follow or not?You?

God is my Creator, is he not?God is supposed to unconditionally love his entire Creation, correct?How can he simultaneously love and subject any part of His Creation to unending torment and suffering?It reminds me of the abusice husband who tells his wife, "I love you, and you have to love me and do what I tell you or else I'm going to beat the crap out of you. I beat you because I love you."If someone I loved disowned me, hated me, or even simply acted as if I didn't exist, I would be sad, but I would never wish to torture them or make them suffer horrible pain.Only a sociopath can torture people and not be affected.

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I am a seeker of the truth whether you believe it or not. I studied Greek and Hebrew the original ones the early scriptures were in. I came to some conclusions. I examined the Bible and I found it to be truthful enough for me.

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Right.So, you think you know the will of God.

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The only part of God's creation that He is responsible for being in the lake of fire is the devil and his angels.

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1) Who created the devil and his angels?2) I thought that it was God who sent people to hell for not believing in Him.

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(1) God created the devil and his angels.

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If the Devil and his angels are responsible for sending me to hell, and God made the Devil and his angels, isn't that the same as God sending me to Hell through his agent?

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{2) A lot of people have that Idea but I don't find it in the Bible.

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So, God has no control over who goes to Hell and who doesn't?Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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Yes

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How do you know, with 100% certainty, that you are 100% correct, even though you are an imperfect human and cannot, by definition, have perfect knowledge of anything?In other words, do you think it is utterly impossible that you could be wrong?Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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So if the information I have is correct I can say with 100% certainty that I am correct. If the information is wrong I can say with 100% certainty I am wrong.

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So, it would be more accurate to say that you believe you know the will of God, but you don't actually have any way of knowing that you actually do.Is that a fair statement?Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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Did I say that? Or, Are you saying that.

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You said that God didn't actually send people to Hell Himself, but that the Devil and the Devil's angels did that.I then asked you who made the Devil and his angels, and you told me that God did.My question above is simply the next logical step.What is the difference between God sending people to Hell and the agent God created (and also controls, if God really is All-Powerful) sending people to Hell?If Tony the Mob Boss wants protection money from me and I refuse to pay, I end up on the whack list.If Tony doesn't do the deed himself and sends Geno his hitman, isn't Tony the Mob Boss still responsible for ordering Geno to whack me?I think it's called conspiracy.

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I said mankind is doomed to hell when they reach the point in life they become as the first man did when he ate the fruit of the tree of good and evil. He then became as God knowing good and evil. The man was kicked out of God's estate. His descendants you in this case have no right or claim to live in God's estate. Since you are not living in God's estate you are living in the devil's estate from that moment on and where ever he is you will be.

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If true, then your God has no honor, punishing me for something I had no control over and that I didn't do.It is like putting a murderer's child to death for the crime her father did.That's sick.

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God has no control over those who choose not to accept the free pardon.

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But I thought God was All-Powerful and All-Loving?How can an All-Powerful God not have control over who goes to Hell and who doesn't?How can an All-Loving God send his people to Hell to endure an eternity of suffering and torment if He is All-Loving.It simply makes no sense at all.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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You receive the Holy Spirit when you are born again. That is not manifest in raising the dead, speaking in tongues, rolling on the floor or some other emotional outburst. It is manifest in someone doing God's will. By their works ye shall know them.

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So, can someone do God's will if they don't believe in God?Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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It is certain that if mankind do not receive the free pardon God offers mankind will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

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The pardon isn't free.If it was, we wouldn't have to have even heard of Jesus or Christianity, or have to accept either if we have, to receive it.

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But God is not punishing you. You are punishing yourself.

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Bullpucky.I didn't create hell, I don't choose to go there, I didn't eat the apple, I didn't do anything wrong.If I end up in hell for something I didn't do, it will be god's fault for either sending me there or allowing me to end up there.

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A woman who has aids gets pregnant and brings a child into the world who has aids. Is that God's fault?

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In this analogy, it would be the mother who is equivalent to God, since the mother is the one "sentencing" the child to a life with AIDS.That's why my analogy is better: If I had nothing to do with Adam and Eve's sin, then why should I be punished for something I didn't do?

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Because He has enough power to limit what He will or will not do.

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That is contradictory and illogical.

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If He controled it you would not have freewill and have the ability to choose where you wanted to spend eternity.

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If all we have to do is choose, then obviously hell is empty.

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After all they have accepted Him if they are His people.

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So, only people who have accepted God are "His people"?He doesn't care about anybody except those who have accepted him? He can sit by and watch as many souls suffer in eternal torment?Again, no honor and a cruel tyrant.

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Short answer: No.

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Will Ghandi burn in Hell forever, then?All those millions and millions of people over the millenia since Jesus lived who have never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel are burning in Hell?Again, your God is a cruel, sick tyrant.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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Does reality trump my view of what happened according to the Bible?
Concerning the possibility of a world wide flood.

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Yes, of course it does.Just like reality trumps the Biblical idea of unicorns existing, and that making livestock breed in view of certain kinds of wooden poles will produce spotted offspring, and that rabbits chew cud.God's work is written in the rocks, the DNA of living creatures, and the stars, not in books written 2000 years ago by superstitious prescientific uneducated nomadic Middle Eastern sheep herders.

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That makes my God a very honorable God.

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Yeah.In the same way that Mr Scarfo is "honerable" if he agrees to not burn down my house if I give him protection money.

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That is between Ghandi and God.

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Now hold on.You said:

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You receive the Holy Spirit when you are born again. That is not manifest in raising the dead, speaking in tongues, rolling on the floor or some other emotional outburst. It is manifest in someone doing God's will. By their works ye shall know them.

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By which I took it to mean that it is our good works and how we treat other people that we will be able to tell who is doing god's will.Next, I asked: And you replied:

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Short answer: No.

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You are the one who says he knows the will of God, and it is you who rather firmly stated that By their works ye shall know them.How can you say that Ghandi, who brought justice to many millions through the promotion of nonviolence and peace, is not doing God's work?God will send Ghandi to Hell just becasue he isn't born again? Will God allow murderers and rapists who become born again christians while in prison in, but not Ghandi?What kind of God would send a great man of peace and justice to Hell, while wothless, death row converts go to heaven?

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How do you know they never had an opportunity to hear the Gospel?

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It is only logical.There was no such thing as mass media for some time after Christ's death, ICANT. The Apostles were only a few men. How fast do you think they could have spread the good news? Did any of them make it to Australia, do you think? How about South America? The Mongolian Steppes?It wasn't until around two millenia later that European Christian missionaries made it to some of those places.All those people who never heard about Christianity in 2000 years were doomed to Hell becasue they were not born again, and did not accept Jesus as their personal savior?And, why won't you answer the question:If I had nothing to do with Adam and Eve's sin, then why should I be punished for something I didn't do?