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Author Topic:   Is God good?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 260 of 722 (683239)
12-08-2012 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Dr Adequate
12-08-2012 10:32 AM


Telling God how He should act
Well, WE do. It would be nice if you'd consider that some people who aren't as stupid as you like to think we are do think we know this, because maybe it might cause you to stop and think it's possible for this to be true, but if not, then not.
But it's not knowledge, it's opinion. You know, like a Muslim's opinion that the Koran is God's word.
No it's not, it is something we KNOW, and the Bible and the God of the Bible are the ONLY things that are known in this way. This is one of those things I'd ask you to CONSIDER you might be wrong about. It's like this:
Hbr 11:1 Now faith is ... the evidence of things not seen.
That SOUNDS so reasonable ...
'Cos it is. If God's omnipotent, he can intervene in anything. He chooses not to.
This simply denies His whole revelation about How He operates and how reality is structured. You want Him to violate His own laws. Theoretically, as I said, He COULD have set things up entirely differently, even in such a way that would require Him to intervene, but He didn't, He set them up the way He set them up, and again, He could only do the most just and righteous thing so that's how He set things up whether we can grasp any of it with our fallen minds or not.
And again, I think this is all about His leaving human beings made in His image free to make a nearly perfect mess of things on our own. The way to prevent evil is to follow His laws and to make laws for nations that follow His laws, but you all violate His laws and are supporting laws more and more that violate His laws. We can also pray for His righteousness to prevail, but you all work against His righteousness. I'll agree that the church isn't on top of these things as we should be either, too many of us get drawn away into the kind of thinking on EvC forum instead of following God. I guess that makes you happy but that's one explanation for why the evil you decry occurs as it does and in fact is growing worse every day.
You may think that that's a good idea, but good or bad it is (supposing he exists) what he does.
I don't judge God. You want Him to eradicate sin -- certain kinds of sin anyway since I'm sure you're very fond of your own sins -- or to have prevented it in the first place, but if He did that we would no longer have free will, we'd be automatons.
Fear not, all sin will be judged in the end. By the God you despise so much because He doesn't obey you but requires that you obey Him instead. Again, I simply humbly suggest CONSIDER that God's way of doing things is better than anything you could dream up, and that, maybe, really, the existence of such evils is really partly your own fault since you DO like your sins, you just don't like others' and you think God's law should allow yours and others you decree to be morally acceptable by your standards.
Despite being allegedly unalterably opposed to sin, he lets it "play out", as you say. Unless the sin involves children being cheeky to a bald guy, then he kills them.
As jaywill pointed out those were not children they were young men, probably something like an inner city gang, and they were taunting a servant of God, therefore taunting God.
Oh God is certainly unalterably opposed to sin, and has promised that it will all be punished to exact perfection in the end, as Jesus also affirmed when He said He came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it, down to every jot and tittle or comma and period. You, however, despise His Law, so does the rapist-murderer. If God intervened to stop the rapist-murdered He'd also intervene to stop your long list of everyday sins as well. And some of yours have committed a form of rape and murder too, if you understand the sermon on the mount.
Theoretically God COULD have made the whole thing some other way completely but why should I trust my own ideas about what He could or should have done?
Well, that's what you're doing, isn't it? In the end, you do all your thinking with your own brain.
I don't have any more natural liking for God's laws against my sins than you do, I had a big struggle with a lot of His decrees at first; I don't have any more natural understanding of why He does what He does than you do. The difference is that I am willing to give up my opinions and submit to His revelation because I believe it IS His revelation. That is NOT at all imposing my own thinking on Him the way you impose yours on Him. You are simply FOLLOWING where your brain leads you, I've had to learn to STOP following where my brain leads me and learn a whole new way of thinking. That's called REPENTANCE, which I think also describes what I keep recommending about stopping and considering you might be wrong in where your brain leads you. The rewards have been well worth it, to put it mildly, but the method is NOT how you are characterizing it.
I for one believe that what He says in His word is true, that He is good, that the way things are is the only way they could be for the best possible outcome. He is good and I am not in a position to see why He did what He did as He did it, I have to take it on faith.
But don't you see that you could say that about anyone or anything? You could be worshiping the absolute quintessence of evil and have faith that despite all appearances it's really good.
Of course if that's what you think I'm advocating I can't blame you for refusing to consider anything I say. I rather think that can't possibly be what you get out of what I say, but if it is, it is, that's your choice in the end.
I obviously can't talk you out of your moral judgment, that's why I didn't try.
That's not a moral judgement, those are just facts.
Fact 1: God does not intervene in many horror. He didn't smite Stalin or Pol Pot, for example, to name two people who died natural deaths after committing massive genocides.
But where on earth are you getting the idea that's how God should operate? He's never said He operates that way, you are just making it up and imposing it on Him.
Fact 2: The Bible portrays him as being perfectly willing to intervene in certain cases. Blammo, a pestilence, ka-zap, people drop dead, hey presto, a global flood, abracadabra, ten plagues, shazam, magic bears. In the latter case, to kill children as a punishment for impoliteness.
Again they were not children.
So now you are talking exclusively about God's judgments in this world. Yes, and He's made it clear in the Old Testament that this IS how He operates in this world. This is His Law inexorably judging sin. He also time and time again sends prophets to warn that such judgments are coming so that people can repent and avoid them. They usually don't, at least not on a national scale, so they get zapped but they were warned and that has to be understood as God's mercy.
It took Noah a hundred years to construct the ark and we understand that he preached incessantly to the people to repent of their sins because a great judgment was coming, but they ignored him and treated him as a moron, so when the Flood did finally come only the few who were with Noah were saved.
Nineveh however is an interesting case of a pagan nation that followed idols that DID repent and was spared that judgment preached by Jonah.
If you want God's judgments to stop, you REPENT. If you go on mocking and insulting God and those who believe Him you can't say you weren't warned.
So any theological argument that says that the God of the Bible would take a non-interventionist stance in general has got to be wrong. According to the Bible, he'll use his powers to intervene in the most trivial of human affairs when he feels like it.
Trivial by whose standards? Yours of course. Not His. But like others here you know so much better than God how things ought to be. Which is how all those people Noah preached to also thought.
There are two possible conclusions. One is that most of the time he doesn't feel like it, and sits back and lets things happen that a good human being would give his very life to prevent --- and which God could prevent just by wishing it. The other is that there is no God and the Bible's a load of old cobblers.
Well if you are going to go on ignoring His revelation about how He does things you're going to go on making up stuff about Him and He's going to leave you to it. God is intervening all the time to keep this world from falling into total ruin, as a matter of fact, and He does restrain evil according to the prayers of His people, but this isn't apparent to you because this world IS so overridden with sin and evil. One way God intervenes for our good IS to judge sin. Like the death penalty they can protect us from worse evils and if they led us to repentance which is really what should be our response, then we would be protected from worse calamities to come. I keep watching all the destruction that keeps coming from natural disasters and think how it's only going to get worse because there's never a call to repentance, it's all just ask the government for more money etc. etc. Churches pray but the sin is enormous. You don't understand anything about how He works because you ignore what He's told us, so it looks whimsical to your little mind.
Again, try restraining your own opinions about these things. That's the only way you might come to learn something.
Those are facts. If presentation of these facts suggests some sort of moral judgement to you, then while that may be my intention, it is not my doing. It's yours.
OK so you aren't judging God for not intervening in the rapist-murder? No, you just don't believe He exists. OK, whatever. All the same to me.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-08-2012 10:32 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2012 12:15 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 261 of 722 (683240)
12-08-2012 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by kofh2u
12-08-2012 7:08 PM


Re: On the Intelligent Uses of Intelligence
Kof, I don't want to ignore you but I'm also afraid of responding because I have NO idea what you are trying to say. I might agree with your assessment of the sad state of the culture but I don't get how it relates to anything I said and seems to me to be completely off topic.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by kofh2u, posted 12-08-2012 7:08 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 263 of 722 (683242)
12-09-2012 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Dr Adequate
12-09-2012 12:15 AM


Re: Telling God how He should act
Is the faith of the Muslim and the Hindu and the Sikh also evidence of things not seen?
No, I already said this only applied to the Bible and the God of the Bible. Because it's the only true religion and it's revealed by faith, a kind of faith that is evidence for things unseen.
Faith isn't evidence for things. It's just faith.
I suggest you consider you might be wrong about this.
Perhaps I'll have time later to answer more of your post.
Just saw this though:
No. Your brain led you to Christianity. I very much doubt it was your liver or your kidneys.
My brain couldn't have led me to Christianity in a million years, not without God's somehow applying His grace such that I was enabled to see in a new way. For that reason I often do think such attempts as I make here to persuade people are useless. On the other hand, scripture says "How will they believe if it is not preached?"
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2012 12:15 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 3:53 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 265 by Larni, posted 12-09-2012 5:36 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 275 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2012 10:20 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 267 of 722 (683250)
12-09-2012 8:33 AM


Tangle, Dwise and Larni:
Wow, I so underestimate the ways it's possible to deny whatever you all want to deny and explain away whatever I say as if I couldn't think up the same mind-numbing stuff you think up.
The fact is that the other religions are NOT the same in just about any way you could think of, they do NOT claim that faith is a method of knowledge, they do NOT even claim that they are inspired by God. Even Islam only claims to have been given by an angel, not God and it was all made up by one man. The Bible is written by many for a reason, so you don't have to put your trust in one man but have many witnesses.
Also, Biblical Christianity is above all a history of real events intended to demonstrate the reality of God and His workings in this world, and all other religions are merely collections of teachings. God has spoken ONLY through the Bible and no other religion has anything remotely like that.
And they all teach earning your way to heaven if they have any teaching on salvation at all, they certainly have no Savior who came to die for sinners. (Yes I know there are "dying gods" in the old mystery religions but their death didn't pay for your sins)
I'd STILL say, CONSIDER that you might be wrong.
Oh well. Obviously it just proves once again that God must open eyes.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by crashfrog, posted 12-09-2012 9:35 AM Faith has replied
 Message 272 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 10:03 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 269 of 722 (683252)
12-09-2012 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by crashfrog
12-09-2012 8:39 AM


Re: On the Intelligent Uses of Intelligence
I give up.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by crashfrog, posted 12-09-2012 8:39 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 273 of 722 (683258)
12-09-2012 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by crashfrog
12-09-2012 9:35 AM


oh yes they were actual witnesses
But nobody who wrote any part of the Bible was a witness to its events. Not even the Biblical fundamentalists claim that the Bible was authored by eyewitnesses. The best they can claim is that the Bible claims eyewitnesses to its events, but it names almost none of them and certainly no independent corroboration survives to this day, if there ever was any.
Good grief, crash, no no no. The writers of the gospels DO claim to have been eyewitnesses of Christ. John says so in so many words:
1John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 1Jo 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
We know that if John witnessed all this personally, so did Matthew, Mark, Peter, Jude and James who were also writers of the New Testament.
We certainly also believe that Moses witnessed what he wrote about, and the other writers of the Old Testament as well who report on various events.
About considering that you might be wrong I don't mean just some stance for the sake of argument I mean REALLY considering it sol that it could change you. I guess I can't get it across.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by crashfrog, posted 12-09-2012 9:35 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by crashfrog, posted 12-09-2012 10:35 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 276 of 722 (683265)
12-09-2012 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Tangle
12-09-2012 10:03 AM


Your personal belief is a minority one, a very minority one. Your belief isn't even shared by others in the Christian movement. Is everybody else in the world wrong and you right? How does that work?
My beliefs are very mainstream, not at all minority but standard Protestant doctrine, as I showed particularly on the Catholicism-Protestantism thread.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 10:03 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 11:12 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 278 of 722 (683268)
12-09-2012 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by crashfrog
12-09-2012 10:35 AM


Re: oh yes they were actual witnesses
Yes the books of the Bible were written by those who claimed to write them. John was writing about witnessing to Jesus Christ, he just likes to refer to Him as the Word of God. You've bought all the revisionist lies about the writing of the Bible. No wonder there's no way to discuss any of this.
Oh for crying out loud don't give me that stupidity about Moses not writing about his own death. We know a scribe had to have added that. Good grief. Scribes probably literally put pen to paper for some of the rest of it as well, which doesn't mean Moses wasn't its author.
I said I gave up. I do give up, I give up I give up I give up I give up.
DON'T consider anything crash. Stay exactly as ignorant as you are, you prefer it, I wouldn't DREAM of trying to change your mind any more;.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by crashfrog, posted 12-09-2012 10:35 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 11:09 AM Faith has not replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 279 of 722 (683270)
12-09-2012 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Faith
12-09-2012 10:51 AM


Re: oh yes they were actual witnesses
You're all being killed by lies, convoluted lies. You're being KILLED by them but it looks like you're going to go on defending them to the death.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 12-09-2012 10:51 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by jar, posted 12-09-2012 11:18 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 283 by Phat, posted 12-09-2012 11:26 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 291 of 722 (683318)
12-09-2012 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Tangle
12-09-2012 11:12 AM


OK fine I thought you meant I was a minority Christian
But I am a completely generic Protestant. We all believe in the same gospel of salvation despite other differences, and I consider us all part of the same Christian family. In my town I figure there are about forty "Christian" churches. I wouldn't have any problem attending about 32 of them.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 11:12 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 5:12 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 292 of 722 (683319)
12-09-2012 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Phat
12-09-2012 11:55 AM


Re: God is make believe
Phat, as far as I've been able to tell you are being killed along with the rest of them. I haven't seen you ever say you believe that Christ died for your sins, which is THE gospel of salvation, and I have seen you discount much of the Bible and actually accept jar's calling God "She."

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Phat, posted 12-09-2012 11:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by Phat, posted 12-10-2012 4:57 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 293 of 722 (683320)
12-09-2012 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Tangle
12-09-2012 11:12 AM


How sad sad sad it is that the only true God is now classed among pagan religions as a "minority" belief, the true religion that made western civilization, and you're all so aggressively rejecting your own historical and cultural foundations, but far worse than any of that you're rejecting the only means to salvation.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 11:12 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2012 4:58 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 308 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2012 8:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 296 of 722 (683323)
12-09-2012 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by kofh2u
12-09-2012 2:19 PM


These are merely the twelve (12) different groups or "tribes" in the present Global Village which represent the 12 foundation walls for the coming New Jerusalem which encases the world because he comes who will explain what the Bible actually says, in spite everyone of these 12 groups think they know.
What IS your belief system anyway, Kofh? You include all the religions in one big lump together as part of the New Jerusalem? The New Jerusalem in the Bible represents those who have been saved by Christ and washed in the blood of the lamb. And who is it you seem to be expecting imminently who will explain the Bible? Are you aware that many Christians are expecting the final Antichrist soon? Sounds like that's who you have in mind as well.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by kofh2u, posted 12-09-2012 2:19 PM kofh2u has not replied

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 Message 297 by jar, posted 12-09-2012 5:41 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 298 of 722 (683326)
12-09-2012 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Tangle
12-09-2012 5:12 PM


You are amazing, even for a creationist.
Protestantism IS a minority belief even within Christianity.
Not Found
But then you believe in the absolute wackiest form of it - literal creationism, Noah, Floods, the whole bag of crabs - which puts you amongst a really tiny number of people.
Oh not as small as you think. MOST Protestants (defined as those who believe in the gospel of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone through God's grace alone) believe this too but they don't get on message boards and argue for it.
However, I don't reject those who believe in the gospel of salvation who also believe in some way of twisting Genesis to fit their idea of what science says. I think it's sad but I don't think they've missed salvation. Buz belonged to what orthodox Protestants regard as a cult and yet it seems to believe the true gospel so I regard him as my brother in the Lord. He also believed in a few extra millions of years to be found in Genesis, which I certainly cannot find myself. but it's the gospel that is the defining concept of Christianity.
OK here's the Wikipedia list from your link.
2.1 Catholicism - 1.2 billion
2.2 Protestantism - 600—800 million
2.3 Eastern Orthodoxy - 230 million
2.4 Anglicanism - 85 million
2.5 Oriental Orthodoxy - 82 million
2.6 Restorationism - 45 million
2.7 Unitarian Universalism - 0.6 million[153]
2.8 Nestorianism - 0.6 million
I reject Catholicism as an institution because of all its false teachings as defined by the Bible, just as all the Protestant Reformers did, who were all Catholics to start with but came to the conclusion through the Bible that the papacy is in fact the Antichrist and that the "church" is not Christian at all.
NEVERTHELESS, there can be some saved Catholics who believe the same gospel I believe. I hope so anyway.
Likewise I think there are saved Eastern Orthodox believers although that institution also teaches some false doctrine.
A hundred years ago I wouldn't have had much trouble accepting Anglicanism as Christian but they've gone so liberal I don't know any more. Perhaps there are also still some saved Anglicans who believe the true gospel of salvation.
Oriental Orthodoxy comprises some of the oldest Christian denominations and I have to suppose many of them still own the true gospel but I don't know enough about them to be sure.
Restorationism is a false teaching but they nevertheless hold to the true gospel, and again, that's the defining element. ABE: OOPS, I thought this was a movement within Protestantism by the title, but I just read the entry and I see its a catchall for a bunch of false cults like Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses. Nope, not Christian. They have false ideas about Jesus Christ and they do not know the gospel of salvation.
Unitarian Universalism rejects the Deity of Christ and the gospel of salvation so they are not Christian, they are a heresy.
I think Nestorianism is too but although I read the description I'm not sure.
Overall it looks to me like I consider a lot more on that list to be true Christians than you thought.
But that's not the bloody point. The point being made was that almost the entirity of the planet believes something different to you and most of them believe it as strongly as you do. But YOU know you're right, just like they do.
You are in the UK, are you part of the British heritage? If so it's very sad that you don't even have the most rudimentary understanding of your CULTURAL Christian heritage, let alone its true doctrine of salvation. Christianity came into the world along with versions of all those other religons and displaced all of them in the middle east and the west BECAUSE IT WAS RECOGNIZED TO BE THE TRUTH. Sad you think numbers mean anything.
So if there is only one true god and it's yours, how come everybody else doesn't know it? How come they have their own certainties? Why does where your'reborn matter more than any other factor in the belief game?
It doesn't. That's an illusion. There are a lot more Christians all over the world than you know anything about, most of them being viciously persecuted by those other religions in your pie. But the Bible TELLS us why the gospel is rejected, and you guys at EvC are unfortunately a great example of why. It's "foolishness" to you as the gospel writers said it would be to many, but to "us" it is the "power of God unto salvation."
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : Add note about Restorationism.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2012 5:12 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2012 7:23 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 299 of 722 (683327)
12-09-2012 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by jar
12-09-2012 5:41 PM


Re: wish in one hand ...
That's been true for over 2000 years now.
Not really, but anyway, what may make the difference now is that so many NONChristian belief systems are expecting some great representative of their religion to appear soon and set things right, and Kofh's remark suggests he has a similar expectation, though I have no idea who exactly he thinks he's expecting.
I'm sure you're aware that Ahmadinejad (sp?) is expecting the 12th Imam or Imam Mahdi to show up very soon for instance. Orthodox Jews are still expecting their Messiah, having rejected the true one. A huge statue of the Hindu-Buddhist "savior" Maitreya was erected somewhere in Asia not too long ago in expectation of his soon arrival, and there's this New Age guy Benjamin Creme who has been telling us HIS "Maitreya" is going to appear very soon, and his stuff was actually promoted by the UN not long ago but that information was removed from his website last time I looked. You'll also find murmurings among New Agers in general about such "entities" as the "Ascended Masters" touted by Madame Blavatsky and Alice Bailey being about to show up and set us all straight. Most of these religions have some way of explaining away the true Christ of the Bible, which ought to be a red flag. He's the only one they feel it necessary to explain away.
Oh but you're right, we should get back to the topic.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by jar, posted 12-09-2012 5:41 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by jar, posted 12-09-2012 6:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
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