Morality! Thorn in Darwin's side or not?

There is always the hope you will actually stop telling lies like "So a genuine evolutionist does not teach morals at home to his or her children, they can only mention physical or social consequences of certain behaviors, and their own preferences as parents."You know people can actually look back and see what you have posted.Understanding that evolution is fact and that we are simply evolved, not more evolved than chimpanzees, apes has absolutely nothing to do with a belief in the existence of God or being a Christian. Even the Pope has acknowledged that evolution is a fact.You can of course say something like "The Pope is not a Christian" which would just be another of your lies or you might say "I don't believe the Pope is a Christian" which may well not be a lie but just another example of your willful ignorance.Now no one actually worships the Pope so you were smart to erase your first message in that post, but understand I am not a Roam Catholic anyway but rather a Protestant Christian.I also understand that evolution is fact and that we are simply evolved, not more evolved than chimpanzees, apes. So you need to stop posting really silly lies. It does your case no good.

'works' for who? everyone or those in power?It is impossible to discuss morality/right and wrong/good and evil in this world without exposing a battle that is taking place on a grand scale through religion and politics and on an individual level or with the conscience.
To blame religion for this conflict and the lack of objective morality is true in every sense but only part of the picture, since it involves more than humanity.

You really haven't read the Bible have you?You post utter nonsense like "So we do have morals, of course we do, our morals defined by us and not anything outside of us." when the Bible clearly says that we have the same ability to know right and wrong as God does. It also says that when we see God is going to behave immorally we need to point that out and chasten God.Throughout the Bible the God character struggles with deciding what is moral and immoral; right and wrong; just as we do. There is no absolute right or wrong in the Bible and we are charged to continue struggling with the issue just as the God characters in in Bible stories did.

There's no such thing as accountability in the theory of gravity. That doesn't imply that the theory of gravity means that people aren't accountable for their actions, it just doesn't mention the concept.

Accountable to us. The rest of us humans. The ones who are imposing the punishments.Realizing that we evolved doesn't prevent this. It hasn't and it won't. Nor should it, its the action that is punished, not the culpability.That's emphazised by the expression that you are "accountable for your actions". You're talking about culpability, not action. That's not what you're accountable for. Evolution is something that happens to populations. It doesn't matter what you do if you're not contributing to the population.In your "rising above" you may procreate a bunch of offspring, and that could have an impact on your population's evolution. But that may be through immoral acts, and the fact that you succeeded evolutionarily, as you point out, doesn't mean that it's right. You yourself have admitted that we hold each other accountable for our actions. It is not our culpability that is punished.So we can, in fact, hold accountability against action, as you propose, without consideration towards culpability, and therefore there is such a thing as accountability in evolution, despite the fact, that you bring up, that there is no what or who to really be held accountable to. How so?

And we'll be saying "it seemed like a good idea at the time"Pity for all those of the past, pity for all those in progress, what a mess.

We may say we are accountable for our actions if we want to, but we are not under any obligation to be accountable, and neither does anyone have the right to make us accountable to whatever, but in evolution they can do this if they want to, simply because they can, and for no external moral reasons.
It does not make their actions right or wrong, just what they are, because it can be done.
So genocide is just a thing that happens by people who can.We may not like that, but that's life under competition the necessary element in evolution.

May I complement you for your clear writing and reasoning.You are saying that accountability is part of evolution because it has become a part of our society.
We could go on a long journey to find out how it entered the world and which morals work the best etc.What I am saying is that, as far as evolution is concerned, the current situation of accountability and its evolving,
may be temporal and overthrown by another ideology which we do not like or agree with. We may think it is wrong and be hurt by it, but its survival may be necessary for the protection of a tougher species in the future.Evolution is something which happens without goals towards goodness or an ideal, it may even bring all things to a permanent destruction, which according to science, we are eventually headed towards a collapsing universe.Such catastrophic endings are tempered by their long term predictions, far beyond our life time, and the fantasy that we will develop and help ourselves to survive any disasters of the future.Then there is another fantasy that death and disease will be overcome...But while many sleep and dream, their lives are drawing to a close, and the battle between good and evil is coming to a sudden unexpected climax on this earth, and we need to be informed how it takes place and make a wise decision about it.To think that morality is solely human generated, without any greater context of God, may be a tragic mistake, because if it goes wrong for us, and the world is betrayed into a false sense of security, by a lying system...who will help us?History shows that human beings are conned by ideologies, betrayed and their society ruined.

Complete twaddle. We behave in moral ways because it's the right thing to do. We know this because when people do bad things to us, it hurts us. We noticed that we need to protect ourselves from bad things happening to us so we invented laws and enforcement methods to help keep us safe. We are accountable to each other and have devised ways of making this work for society.You'll notice a couple of things here - when states fail and law breaks down a lot of very bad things happen. The second thing is that neither god nor evolution was involved No, it makes their actions wrong. Obviously. Well we don't like genocide, that's why we call it both a moral wrong and a crime. But we do like the fact that we know the difference between right and wrong without some Skydaddy having to tell us or some religious zealot making up nonsense.

Well, Tangle it is wonderful that you can bathe in the niceties of Protestant Christian principles of rule, and at the same time dismiss the martyrs of the reformation who shed their blood for freedom from the tyranny of the Papacy.
You might also like to consider how lucky you are to be in a country which is half Christian, and not under some strange middle eastern persuasion.You are pleasantly oblivious to the battle that's been going on in this world to keep its inhabitants out of oppression. Unaware of history.
But go on and enjoy the freedom...You don't like genocide? That's just too bad if another ideology is more powerful than yours, just too bad. Your god of evolution may help who knows.

You have almost as much lack of education about human history as you have about science. All societies, regardless of religious belief, have, throughout history, developed systems of punishing wrong doers. All people everywhere know the difference between right and wrong.None of this has prevented corrupt individuals creating tyrannical regimes from time to time - it's just a bigger form of what you would call sin. But gradually there is a pacification process that tames people through its institutions.You might ask your god why he created us this way - it's almost as if he enjoys watching dog eat dog. Of course this situation is totally explicable if you consider that we evolved from a animals that had to fight daily for their survival.

While those of you in the British Commonwealth may bathe in the niceties of Protestant Christian principles of rule you need to remember that it is the Church of England, not a product of the reformation but rather the conflict of two calendars, the need for an heir and a spare and politics.You really need to learn some basic history of Christianity.And the Protestants produced by the Reformation created their fair share of martyrs and were every bit as oppressive as the RCC.I happen to live in the US where we have a Constitution that contains specific Amendments inserted to protect us from the oppression of the Reformation Protestants.Edited by jar, : fix sub-title appalin spallinEdited by jar, : appalin spallin

That's life under mutual attraction of objects with mass, the necessary element in the theory of gravity.

That's right.If only you understood what you said.

Ah yes, you are talking about the God as servant theology where God's purpose is to save You.Typical Calvinist theology.To think that God exists to save you or that humans are somehow more important than the other apes or pond scum is a classic example of hubris, extreme hubris.But again the Bible says otherwise and even Jesus is reported as saying otherwise.You really need to stop believing the lies like "Christianity is not a religion" or "Jesus was a Christian" and start doing what Jesus said we are to do; to clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, heal the sick and injured, shelter the homeless, teach the children and love and enjoy life.Read the Bible. It says even God can be encouraged to behave more morally by mere humans.AbE:And has been pointed out to you the Bible says we do not need a "greater context of God" and that we have the same capability to know right from wrong as God does.You really need to read the Bible. Most Christians on here who are not members of the Christian Cult of Ignorance and almost all atheists will have actually read and studied the Bible in several versions so you just look stupid when you say stuff the Bible clearly refutes.Edited by jar, : see AbE: