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Author Topic:   The Great Creationist Fossil Failure
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 532 of 1163 (788104)
07-26-2016 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 523 by Faith
07-24-2016 3:25 PM


Re: From rock slabs to epeiric seas, there's no room for living things
Faith writes:
But of course. As the creationists point out, there is no end to the plausible explanations for anything an evo's little heart desires, because it's all the kind of science that can never be proved or disproved, it's all just a tissue of subjective interpretations.
Once again Faith, the only true part of that is that Creationists say the damndest things.
The truth is that every area of science has independently shown that the earth is old and neither of the Biblical Flood myths actually happened.
Physics, astronomy, geology, archeology, paleontology, chemistry, biology, genetics as well as all the physical evidence ever found has independently shown that the earth is old and neither of the Biblical Flood myths actually happened.
No Creationist has ever been able to provide any model, method, process, procedure or thingamabob that can explain what has been discovered and that is the fact that is the reality we live in.
It's not just the fossils.
It is that Young Earth or some Biblical Flood are just plain not true.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 523 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 554 of 1163 (788245)
07-28-2016 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 553 by Pressie
07-28-2016 7:00 AM


Re: From rock slabs to epeiric seas, there's no room for living things
Pressie writes:
Oh, and contrary to what the creationists call "science', rocks dating from the Cambrian are found in lots of locations all over the world. And rocks from the Ordovician are found on the surface in lots of locations all over the world. And rocks from the Silurian outcrop in lots of locations all over the world.
I tried to point that out to Faith in Message 129 of The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock but it was another post to which Faith did not respond if she even read it. It had a link to a map of North American dinosaur fossil finds and to the exposed Cretaceous, Jurassic and Triassic rock formations (the eras when dinosaurs might have lived and died) that exist today.
Here is that map again. She she often says she has a hard time seeing stuff it even has a magnifying glass supplied.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Pressie, posted 07-28-2016 7:00 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by Pressie, posted 07-28-2016 9:18 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 556 of 1163 (788247)
07-28-2016 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 555 by Pressie
07-28-2016 9:18 AM


Re: From rock slabs to epeiric seas, there's no room for living things
I try to always remember that the audience for my posts is not just the person to whom I am responding but also all of the current and future folk who might stumble across the thread.
Sometimes that means repeating what should be bleeding obvious like at any given time the surface of the earth will be areas covered by new soil and new material coming to the surface but also older layers weathering and eroding until they get covered by new soil.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by Pressie, posted 07-28-2016 9:18 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 557 by Pressie, posted 07-28-2016 9:44 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 575 of 1163 (790641)
09-02-2016 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Faith
09-01-2016 10:01 PM


Learning what terms mean.
Faith writes:
"Lowest IN THE STRATA"* is what I meant; Precambrian rocks are at the bottom of the stratigraphic column -- if such a column exists at that location.
Precambrian is simply a time period and in fact a really, really, really long time period.
The Precambrian time period was all of the time from the formation of the earth up until the Cambrian which was only about 500 million years ago. The Precambrian covers a time span of about 4 Billion years. It is not some layer but rather a collection of quite varied geological as well as biological evidence including the Great Rusting where life forms created the materials that allow our great cities to exist. The Precambrian is not simply the bottom of the geological column and the time frame of existence on Earth but rather the vast majority of it.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Faith, posted 09-01-2016 10:01 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 577 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2016 5:39 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 582 of 1163 (793732)
11-05-2016 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 578 by mindspawn
11-05-2016 4:50 PM


Re: More amazing sorting
mindspawn writes:
I place the flood at the PT boundary which is where the flooding evidence exists.
Finally a date. So the Biblical Flood happened about 250 million years before the first human. Got it.
That sure makes God pretty stupid it seems. You'd think if it was humans sinning that got God's panties in a wad he would wait until there were some human to try to kill them with a flood.
maindspawn writes:
To explain the pre-Cambrian fossils, obviously after creation the earliest fossils would be the short life-span fossils , like bacteria etc.
Got it. So the creation stories in the Bible really are just myths and lies. Interesting.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 578 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 4:50 PM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 584 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 5:48 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 585 of 1163 (793736)
11-05-2016 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 584 by mindspawn
11-05-2016 5:48 PM


Re: More amazing sorting
mindspawn writes:
Well this isn't the thread to discuss the flaws of radiometric dating. I'm merely referring to the ordering of the fossils. Which are pretty consistent with what one would expect from creation.
I know you make that assertion but reading any of the Biblical Creation Myths I find no mention of bacteria or tribolites.
And radiometric dating was not mentioned nor needed to show that there were no humans alive at the time of the PT boundary or the Biblical Flood according to you.
Yup, a pretty stupid God it seems.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 584 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 5:48 PM mindspawn has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 598 of 1163 (793751)
11-05-2016 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 593 by mindspawn
11-05-2016 6:54 PM


Re: More amazing sorting
mindspawn writes:
There have been many ooparts. Out of place artifacts, signs of early humans before the PT boundary. Scientists tend to steer clear of studying these because their careers are normally based on the status quo and they would be belittled and their academic status undermined if they give support to radical theories which undermine the status quo.
Human footprints have been found before the PT boundary. A bell was found in Carboniferous coal. The Narmer tablets record dinosaurs with humans in early Egyptian society. as do Sumerian seals. Anyone is able to discover this information in the internet, I wont even bother posting the links here because you guys obviously will not accept those OOPARTS (out of place artifacts) as scientific evidence.
I know that Creationist sites make such claims but so far have never presented the evidence or explained why things like the bell are even out of place.
Creationists have had many decades to produce some evidence but have NEVER been able to do so. Oh sure, they do well at the Carny side show but never make it into the main tent.
mindspawn writes:
But my main point is that vast areas of earth have not been studied for early mammals, including humans. The environment where mammals would be would be similar to today, because these rare pre-flood creatures now dominate in a world of angiosperms, So the pre-flood region we should be studying should be one where angiosperms existed before the PT boundary.
So why have no Creationists ever looked there?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 593 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 6:54 PM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 604 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 7:52 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 607 of 1163 (793760)
11-05-2016 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 601 by mindspawn
11-05-2016 7:36 PM


Re: More amazing sorting
Yet more bullshit.
mindspawn writes:
After the flood, there were only 8 humans. with massive life-spans.
Too funny.
Where are all the humans that were drowned in the flood and that according to YOUR fiction should be found BELOW the P/T boundary?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 601 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 7:36 PM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 611 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 8:12 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 610 of 1163 (793763)
11-05-2016 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by mindspawn
11-05-2016 7:52 PM


Re: More amazing sorting
mindspawn writes:
Regarding creationists finding pre-flood cities and human settlements, like I said earlier humans would not have settled in the low lying areas susceptible to marine flooding. The time before the PT boundary had a flat topography and was susceptible to marine flooding/transgressions so not a good place to live. I could be wrong, but the only vast highland I can find before the PT boundary that has signs of a modern environment is the Siberian highlands. Also one has to look for an environment where the eco-system was similar to modern times, when mammals currently dominate. The way to recognise such an eco-sytem is through the presence of angiosperms. Siberia is again the only such place before the PT boundary with a flora environment similar to that found in the modern mammal dominant world.
Liar liar pants on fire. Sorry that is a utter nonsense based on your own assertions. Please present the evidence of human settlements below the P/T boundary. The whole purpose of the imaginary floods was to kill humans.
Again, that is NOT how a thinking honest person would recognize a human occupied environment. Honest thinking people would identify a human occupied environment by the presence of ....human remains and artifacts.
And guess what? When we do find early human settlements they are very often in low lying coastal regions.
Sheesh.
mindspawn writes:
The problem with finding human cities there, is the entire region has been covered by lava during the Siberian traps, the trigger event for the end-Permian extinction. I could be mistaken but as far as I know this is the greatest volcanic event ever recorded in the geologic record. A vast area of the Siberian highlands is covered by this end Permian rock.
How convenient. You cannot expect anyone to take such utter bullshit seriously can you?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 7:52 PM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 614 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 8:19 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 612 of 1163 (793765)
11-05-2016 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 611 by mindspawn
11-05-2016 8:12 PM


Re: More amazing sorting
mindspawn writes:
Siberia. Under the volcanic rock.
Too funny. Again, how silly can you get. If all the humans are buried under the Siberian Trap are you saying that God was so blind and stupid he did not notice and so sent a flood anyway but just forgot to mention it in the myths?
Edited by jar, : is ----> in

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 611 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 8:12 PM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 623 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 3:02 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 617 of 1163 (793770)
11-05-2016 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 614 by mindspawn
11-05-2016 8:19 PM


Re: More amazing sorting
mindspawn writes:
Yes its true that human settlements are found in low lying coastal regions today. But we do not have the marine transgressions today that occurred before the PT boundary. So the situations are different.
The Carboniferous Period
"Shallow, warm, marine waters often flooded the continents"
Like I said, not a good place to live
Yet we find that it was a good place to live and lots of stuff did live along the shorelines, BUT no humans. No humans in the mountains before the P/T boundary either. Or fishermen.
Remember the whole point of the Flood you claim at the P/T boundary was to kill ALL the humans but eight of them yet not even one human or any human artifacts has ever been found below the P/T boundary.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by mindspawn, posted 11-05-2016 8:19 PM mindspawn has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 620 of 1163 (793773)
11-05-2016 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 619 by Dr Adequate
11-05-2016 9:52 PM


Re: More amazing sorting
It's also interesting to see the quote in context as is so often the case when dealing with Creationist Quote mining:
quote:
The most important discovery we’ve made so far took place in central Anatolia, he said. There, we found an ancient community of fossil mammals that is utterly unique for two reasons. First, many of the fossil species are completely unlike any other fossil mammals we’ve ever seen. Second, even in cases where the Turkish fossils are somewhat familiar, they occur alongside other types of mammals they’ve never been found with before. One of the groups of mammals we’ve found is an extinct group called embrithopods, which look vaguely like rhinos except they had two nasal horns that diverged from each other in a Y-shaped pattern.
The KU researcher said embrithopods are commonly found in Africa, but there they typically occur alongside African mammals. By contrast, in Turkey the embrithopods lived among mammals obviously related to species from Europe and Asia.
Source
So in context they found some critters THEY had not seen and that seem to be local but that were found with recognizable and identifiable species within a different mix of species than most often found together.
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 619 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-05-2016 9:52 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 632 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 5:29 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 641 of 1163 (793801)
11-06-2016 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 623 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 3:02 AM


more bullshit and ignorance.
mindspawn writes:
Well like I said in this thread, there are many OOPARTS. Out of place artifacts. So humans were not entirely confined to the Siberian region, but that is where most of the evidence of pre-flood humanity would be.
Yes, you have made such claims and yet as expected offered no evidence to support those assertions.
mindspawn writes:
The bible refers to the fountains of the great deep bursting forth, yet most other times the word for fountains/springs in Hebrew is followed by "of water". As if to clarify the substance. Yet in the flood story there is no mention that these fountains are of water. This is the trigger for the flood, and also in history this lava event is widely acknowledged as the trigger event for the End Permian Extinction.
Again, there is absolutely no evidence to support your Biblical fantasy. All you are doing is making shit up to pretend the Bible stories actually reflect reality instead of fantasy. There is nothing in either of the Biblical flood myths to suggest the fountains of the deep mean anything other than water.
mindspawn writes:
At the PT boundary the ice caps melted, the southern ice cap was far more extensive than anything today, and so naturally sea levels would change. The PT boundary is associated with widespread marine flooding into the continental interior. From a human perspective there is a double whammy. Death by lava, then if one escapes that , death by flooding when the ice caps melted.
Again, what you are doing is once again (just as Biblical Christians do with the Bible) taking pieces parts out of context to tray to make reality fit your fantasy.
Yes there were sea level incursions but never a period when all the earth was under water. And there was dry land surrounding those inland sea incursions throughout the period.
There is not even one human fossil, one human artifact that has been found below the P/T boundary.
BUT wait, there is more:
There is not one single example of any modern critter found below the P/T boundary. Not one human example, not one cattle kind, not one bird kind, not one example of flowering plants, not one raven kind (note the Bible separates ravens and doves as different kinds), not one camel, not one lion or tiger or bear, OhMy.
So a Biblical flood at the P/T boundary to kill of humans that simply did not even exist is REALLY stupid of God or it is clear evidence that the Biblical flood failed since not a single modern critter got killed.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 3:02 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 649 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 9:51 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 642 of 1163 (793802)
11-06-2016 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 632 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 5:29 AM


Re: More amazing sorting
mindspawn writes:
I enjoyed that whole article and believe the facts present in the entire article favour the ark story. So the more you quote the happier I am. thanks for quoting the extra detail. I just like to keep my quotes short if possible.
The scientists in the article seem a little confused. Obviously this confusion is solved by the ark story, the origin of all post-flood terrestrial mammals should be from Turkey. The bible points to that.
And yet another totally unsupported assertion. There is no evidence of an Ark or any reason that the Ark story explains what was found unless as usually you just make stuff up.
The Ark story has the unusual animals that come going on the Ark and so they would not be found as fossils.
Also there are NO mammal critters found below the P/T boundary. You still need to 'splain that.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 632 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 5:29 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 651 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 9:58 AM jar has not replied
 Message 652 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 10:01 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 653 of 1163 (793821)
11-06-2016 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 649 by mindspawn
11-06-2016 9:51 AM


Re: Pre-flood humans
mindspawn writes:
I already explained that the concentration of humans would naturally be where the bible described them, which is a pre-flood highland area. And to find mammals we would have to look in an area with similar eco-system to today, an area of pre-flood angiosperms. This area is in Siberia.
Well no, you have not explained anything.
The Bible flood myths do not say that the concentration of humans was in some pre-flood (or even post flood) highland area or why we should look in Siberia or that pre and post flood highland areas were different.
BUT guess what, the Bible flood stories say that there were humans right there in the middle east, that the imaginary flood covered the mountains, that there were mammals right there in River City yet no evidence of any mammals including humans has ever been found below the P/T boundary.
But wait...there's more. The Siberian Traps cover only part of Siberia. And much of Siberia has been searched and while lots of evidence of pre-P/T boundary life has been found there, no evidence of any pre-P/T boundary mammals has ever been found.
Stupid God; sending a flood when all the bad humans and other mammals that got his panties in a wad were already buried by lava flows.
Stupid God.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 649 by mindspawn, posted 11-06-2016 9:51 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
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