|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1760 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
|
"Whatever is right in response to the stay" is to obey it, not to behave like the tinpot dictator of a banana republic.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 18041 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
(sorry - intended to reply to Faith. Message 42 )
The important question - which applies equally to both cases - is whether a judge may issue an injunction which (temporarily, at least) prevents an Executive Order being carried out. There is no need to review their decisions - that is for the higher courts. So it comes down to the authority of judges. Both judges believe that they have that power. If you disagree then perhaps you should offer a bit more than your personal opinion - given that judges ought to know the law rather better than you. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
The judge issued a stay, Faith. Trump is breaking the law. Pardon my ignorance: What stay are you talking about and how is Trump breaking the law?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Diomedes Member Posts: 998 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
The court is wrong, but that will be shown in any case, so whatever is right in response to the stay I'm for it. I'd think the court would know the order is legal but I guess I'm nave to expect such sanity. The court is wrong, eh? Well thank you Faith. Good to know that you are also a legal scholar among your many other accolades. Like being an expert on genetics, biology, geology, and so forth. Well, at least now we know that all of Obama's executive actions were fully legal and that those terrible judges who filed injunctions against them were clearly wrong. Appreciate you clarifying that for us.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Pardon my ignorance: What stay are you talking about and how is Trump breaking the law? A federal judge in New York has issued an emergency stay temporarily halting the removal of individuals detained after President Trump issued an order to ban immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. The move appears to mark the first successful legal challenge to the Trump administration and affects those who have arrived in the U.S. with previously approved refugee applications or were in transit with valid visas. Similar rulings were later issued in Virginia, Massachusetts and Washington state. U.S. District Court Judge Ann Donnelly ruled in favor of a habeas corpus petition filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) on behalf of two Iraqi men who were detained at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Friday after Trump signed his order. http://thehill.com/...locks-trump-immigration-ban-nationwide
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Here's the full text of the ruling:
Trump Immigration Ban: Transcript of Judge Ruling Against It | Fortune
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Ah, okay, that ruling. It says that people who are already here and have valid documentation shouldn't be removed.
How is Trump breaking that?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 18041 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
In my view it is going too far to say that Trump has definitely broken the law, but obviously the judge thinks it is highly likely that deporting these people on arrival, as Trump intended would have broken the law.
You don't even have to read most of the decision:
1. The petitioners have a strong likelihood of success in establishing that the removal of the petitioner and others similarly situated violates their rights to Due Process and Equal Protection guaranteed by the United States Constitution;
The point of the ruling is that Trump cannot arbitrarily order that people who have been granted the right to enter the country be forbidden. Due process must be followed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
|
Ah, okay, that ruling. It says that people who are already here and have valid documentation shouldn't be removed. How is Trump breaking that? 'Cos they're still doing it. Customs agents ignore judge, enforce Trump’s travel ban: ACLU
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
'Cos they're still doing it. Well, you have a tabloid from yesterday saying that somebody said that there are reports that they are still doing it...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
|
Well, you have a tabloid from yesterday saying that somebody said that there are reports that they are still doing it... Some non-tabloids: Hidden Danger Of Trump Immigration Orders: Dismissal Of Court Orders U.S. judges limit Trump immigration order; some officials ignore rulings | Reuters Border agents defy courts on Trump travel ban, congressmen and lawyers say | US immigration | The Guardian Department of Homeland Security vows to enforce Donald Trump's travel bans, despite court order | The Independent | The Independent Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
The point of the ruling is that Trump cannot arbitrarily order that people who have been granted the right to enter the country be forbidden. Due process must be followed. I would agree that if you have the legal documentation to be here, say a Green Card, but are still technically an alien, then the Executive Order would allow you to be forbidden to enter upon arrival, and, that would be unfair because you technically should be allowed due process. What I don't know is: 1) Does the Green Card actually give full Constitutional protection of due process to aliens? and 2) Can an Executive Order legally override that for aliens? If the answers are yes and no, respectively, then it looks to me like Trump's Executive Order on this matter is unconstitutional as written. Perhaps if the two uses of the word "alien" were replaced with "refugee", then it would be Constitutional. But as written, since Green Card holders are technically still aliens, it reads as if they could be barred from entering upon arrival when, legally, I think they should at least be given due process before being barred. On the other hand, later in the Order it does allow for people to enter on a case-by-case basis, so it's not like there is no way in at all.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Are those links supposed to be showing Trump breaking the law?
Because those are opinions of people who think that since DHS issued a statement saying that they will still execute the order that therefore they are violating the stay that the judge issued.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined: |
* sigh *
U.S. judges in at least five states blocked federal authorities from enforcing President Donald Trump's executive order restricting immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries. However, lawyers representing people covered by the order said some authorities were unwilling on Sunday to follow the judges' rulings.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
Faith writes: . In my opinion any nation should be allowed to discriminate against the entry of members of any other nation for any reason whatever. Nice. By the way, Happy Korematsu's Birthday!! Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2025