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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1760 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1760 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Pretty weird goings on here. All Trump did was what Obama had already done some years ago, but nobody protested Obama's action. If I got this right Obama is a sleazy hypocrite for now condemning Trump's doing what he himself did.
Also, there are laws that prescribe the action. I heard a couple such laws read on the air at Infowars, by different callers to the program, giving all the pertinent reference information, on one of those audio sessions I couldn't take notes on fast enough. Perhaps I can find an article that details it all. I'll see. Or just let the weirdness play out. Eventually the truth will out.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Does the Green Card actually give full Constitutional protection of due process to aliens? I find this question a bit strange. Do you believe that only citizens of the United States have real Constitutional rights? The answer is of course that green card holders do not have all of the rights of citizens. They are subject to removal proceedings if they violate immigration law, and they cannot vote. But having them reside in this country without every other right would be pretty funky. Even illegal immigrants have due process rights. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Pretty weird goings on here. All Trump did was what Obama had already done some years ago ... This is, of course, not true.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
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What I don't know is: 1) Does the Green Card actually give full Constitutional protection of due process to aliens? Not even a green card is usually necessary. A foreigner in the US has the right to free speech, a fair trial, etc; most of the usual protections a citizen has. In the case of due process:
The U.S. Supreme Court settled the issue well over a century ago. But even before the court laid the issue to rest, a principal author of the Constitution, James Madison, the second president of the United States, wrote: "that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage." More recently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Zadvydas v. Davis (2001) that "due process" of the 14th Amendment applies to all aliens in the United States whose presence maybe or is "unlawful, involuntary or transitory." So a fortiori this is true of legal residents with green cards.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1760 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Here's the law I heard about at Infowars, quoted at Frontpagemag.com. Frontpage also reports that Trump has no intention of defying the court order, although...
President Trump would clearly be on firm ground if he wanted to flaunt Donnelly’s order. Federal immigration law states:
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. As former federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy writes, Section 1182(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act:
...plainly and sweepingly authorizes the president to issue temporary bans on the entry of classes of aliens for national-security purposes. This is precisely what President Trump has done. In fact, in doing so, he expressly cites Section 1182(f), and his executive order tracks the language of the statute (finding the entry of aliens from these countries at this time would be detrimental to the interests of the United States). And for anyone who missed it, I refer you again to Townhall's discussion in Message 1. And Infowars has some brief audio reports on the subject:
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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Under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, Congress’s powers in this area are plenary, and the president’s powers are as broad as the Congress chooses to give him. Odd you never used this to defend Obama's actions. They forgot the Judiciary's role in this for some reason.
Liberals are likewise on both unwise and unpopular ground in sneering at the idea that there might be an increased risk of radical Islamist terrorism resulting from large numbers of Muslims entering the country as refugees or asylees. Large numbers?
There have been many such cases in Europe Many?
ranging from terrorists (as in the Brussels attack) Hrm: Ibrahim El Bakraoui - Morocco, not on the list.Najim Laachraoui - Morocco Mohamed Abrini - Belgium, not on the list Khalid El Bakraoui - Belgium Osama Krayem - Sweden, not on the list Well Trump's order would have been ineffective against these guys.
The 9/11 plotters Egyptian and Saudi Arabian. No impact there.
Tsarnaev Kyrgyzstan - no use.
Times Square bomber was a Pakistani immigrant Pakistan, not included. Fun fact - it was a Muslim immigrant that notified the police who were able to evacuate the area.
underwear bomber was from Nigeria So wouldn't have been prevented.
the San Bernardino shooter Enrique Marquez Jr. - America, N/ASyed Rizwan Farook - America, N/A Tashfeen Malik - Pakistan, not on the list the Chattanooga shooter was from Kuwait Not covered.
the Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasan, America, N/A Is it not bothersome that involved agencies weren't consulted?That little care was taken to ensure consitutionality? That the agencies that would be executing the order were not properly briefed and had varying interpretations of the order? That the Administration had no record keeping in place and were unable to advise how many people had been affected by the order? liberal "snowflakes" melt into silly tears over
What a snowflaky opinion This from someone who spent the last 8 years clutching pearls at Obama's reign of terror that he forgot to carry out? Who cried and whinged citing fake news about photoshopped signs and cited forged birth certificates and cried mercilessly about the persecution of Christians when a handful of people got sued? Yeah, your snowflake rhetoric comes across as laughably absurd.
Oo oo oo let's all cower before the murdering ideology You are cowering. Oooo, we can't let fleeing people into the country, even though we are at least partially responsible for collapsing their society, because some of them might want to hurt us using methods that are designed to be all scary, lord help us what a calamity! I have no fear of them. I do however recognize that handing them more ammunition for their propaganda war will make things worse - which makes things better for war profiteers. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1760 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, Congress’s powers in this area are plenary, and the president’s powers are as broad as the Congress chooses to give him. Odd you never used this to defend Obama's actions. I don't recall him needing any defense since nobody was protesting when he issued such orders.
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Porosity Member (Idle past 2409 days) Posts: 158 From: MT, USA Joined:
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Jihadist groups hail Trump’s travel ban as a victory
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...2f-687d6e6a3e7c_story.html Trump's executive order clearly proves he's not interested in national security, only in feeding the irrational fear of his delusional base. The very thing they fear, they are feeding, grooming and growing. If any would be terrorist was on the fence about doing harm to the U.S. is now justified in their minds to do so. You cannot win the hearts and minds of people with discrimination.
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Modulous Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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I don't recall him needing any defense since nobody was protesting when he issued such orders. quote: Faith, Gun Control Again, Message 1481 Sounds like you were protesting forcing something that half the country opposes by executive order of Obama.
Protest against Obama's Executive Orders: "Hang the lying Kenyan traitor!" "Wouldn't be the first one hung on one of them trees." "We've got rope" "Don't snap his neck, you pull him up watch him choke to death" quote:Tea Party's website Your own words, an image, a video and a website. All found within a few minutes of looking. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1760 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jihadist groups hail Trump’s travel ban as a victory https://www.washingtonpost.com/...2f-687d6e6a3e7c_story.html Trump's executive order clearly proves he's not interested in national security, only in feeding the irrational fear of his delusional base. The very thing they fear, they are feeding, grooming and growing. If any would be terrorist was on the fence about doing harm to the U.S. is now justified in their minds to do so. You cannot win the hearts and minds of people with discrimination. Wow, such clever propaganda. Designed to seduce the wacko gullible liberal mind. They do it so well.
It's the liberal mindset that promotes Islamic violence. And the more you keep it up the worse the violence will get while you get more and more placating and deluded that something other than Islamist ideology is the cause. By the time you wake up the death toll will be enormous and there won't be any more America or Europe. Or you won't wake up. You'll just be dead, or become Muslim, which is what they want anyway. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1760 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm too tired to care what pernicious lies you are heaping on me in this weird post of yours. Maybe later.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
* sigh *
U.S. judges in at least five states blocked federal authorities from enforcing President Donald Trump's executive order restricting immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries. However, lawyers representing people covered by the order said some authorities were unwilling on Sunday to follow the judges' rulings. Sorry to bore you... The stay specifically/explicitly talks about "removing" the person. I'm not sure if that is trying to cover detainment or not, but if not then you could go along with the executive order and admit people on a cases by case basis after you detain and interview them. That's what happened to the one petitioner, and then after he got in he praised America. If the stay is percieved by some to mean don't even do that, and if some authorities have said no way to that in particular, then it could be spun into them being "unwilling to the following the ruling" even though they weren't actually breaking the ruling. How many people with the legal right to be here have been removed since the stay? I suppose if authorities are still doing that under the direction of the President then that would technically be him breaking the law. Is that what you were going for? ... Also from the source of your quote:
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security on Sunday said it "will comply with judicial orders," while enforcing Trump's order in a manner that ensures those entering the United States "do not pose a threat to our country or the American people." ... Burroughs' ruling appeared to go further than Donnelly's by barring the detention, as well as the removal, of approved refugees, visa holders and permanent U.S. residents entering from the seven countries. Donnelly's order forbade only removal. ... White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus said several times on NBC's "Meet the Press" that Trump's order does not affect green card holders "moving forward" or "going forward." Did they get it figured out, or are the wrong people still being removed or detained?
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PaulK Member Posts: 18041 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
quote: I would say that it is certainly morally dubious and almost certainly legally dubious to say that the Government can do whatever it likes to non-citizens. It would be a major flaw in the legal system if it were true. Given that there was already enhanced scrutiny for people coming from the affected countries and in the absence of any threat that necessitated the immediate imposition of the ban it is hard to say that Trump's action is at all justified. Therefore I find it credible that Trump's precipitate action was, in fact, illegal.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1
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One of Satans best tricks is making Christians appear to be bigoted, nationalistic, worshiping the false god of patriotism and nationalism, and hating their neighbor in order to preserve their material goods and way of life.
Indeed...come soon, Lord Jesus...and please don't give this nation the judgment it may deserve.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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vimesey Member (Idle past 388 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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If there were a Satan, then one of his crowning achievements was clearly the horror inflicted on the Jewish people, and other persecuted people by the Nazis in the 1930s and 40s.
I visited the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin last year - a visit which everyone should make if they have the chance. It is the most profoundly moving experience, and brings a stunning mixture of anger, revulsion, despair, sadness - and also astonishment at the survival of a tiny core of humanity and strength in the face of an evil of unfathomable depth. It shows you how the evil grew and was nurtured by ordinary people, gradually being carried into blackness by a populist regime, which promised what they wanted, but delivered the most disgusting suffering on innocent people, whom the populace had been taught to fear and hate. The parallels have been pointed out many times before, but their starkness is very apparent if you have visited something like the memorial, and seen and heard and read. If there is some hope that this can be avoided again, it's in the protests and the voices of those who reject any hint of this selfish evil, the shoots of which we are again beginning to see. There were fewer and far quieter voices in the 30s. We should keep shouting loud. I'll leave the last word to Primo Levi, an Auschwitz survivor - I've quoted them before and I'm sure I will again: "It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere." Primo Levi Quotes (Author of Survival in Auschwitz)Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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