Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith

That's such a bizarre idea. How could I possibly have a purpose to suit? Why should it matter to me whether there is a rapture? Or a rapture that occurs before a tribulation period or only when Jesus returns? How could anyone have such a purpose? You guys really just make it all up to suit YOUR purpose, or your beliefs or whatever.

You are wrongly attributing that to me as so often happens. Phat posted that.

I don't know why you are all arguing. What Phat quoted is standard Christian (Protestant) biblical doctrine: We are SAVED by faith alone in Christ alone, not by our good works or good deeds. Good works FOLLOW faith and validate faith but you can't be saved by them. And yes it is PRIDE to try to be saved by your good deeds, as if you were good enough through your own goodness to be saved. Scripture says plainly nobody is good enough for that, you cannot earn salvation, it is the gift of God "lest any man should boast." THEN you do good works.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You are free to prefer other religions or think Christianity is crap, but you are not free to misrepresent what Christianity says, which is that we are saved by faith and not by works.

Completely wrong, you've got it exactly backwards. The medieval view, based on the pagan corruptions of the Roman Church, is that we are saved by works; my view, which is what Phat quoted from Got Questions, is the biblical view that was recovered by the Protestant Reformation.ABE: And of course you prefer that point of view, which is exactly what the article at Got Questions said is generally true of fallen humanity: we all like the idea that our own goodness can earn us salvation, it suits our pride and our need for control*, but that gives us the glory only God should have, which is His if He saves us. As Luther put it, God's contribution to our salvation is all of it, our own contribution is our sinfulness, period.abe *This need for control means some of us are often insecure about whether we've actually been saved or not even when we believe Jesus paid for our sins and we've also had many signs and reasons to believe that we are. We're aware of our sinfulness and it's just hard to believe He would choose *me.* Some people on the other hand have a real certainty about it, a strong memory of their sins being forgiven. But even if we tried to earn salvation by good works I think the same would be true for some of us, as no amount of good works would ever reassure us it was enough. Since Martin Luther was a Roman Catholic Augustinian monk who believed he had to earn his salvation, that plagued him for years: he was always aware that his sins kept overwhelming his good works and always confessing his sins at great length. It was only when he finally saw in the scripture that God saves us, forgives our sins when we believe in Jesus' death on the cross for us, and that we live by faith and not by sight, that he was finally able to be reassured.In other words it isn't exactly the simple believism others sometimes impute to us.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Not in my world you can't. I believe what I've learned to be the truth and make up not one iota of it.You left this part out: This is historical fact, nobody makes up historical fact, not even you. What on earth does this have to do with salvation by faith versus works?But as I said, believe the pagan Roman Catholic salvation by works if you like, although speaking of immorality they're no doubt the champs with their popes who had multiple children by mistresses, and their murders of rivals, and sexual misbehavior between priests and nuns because of their evil vow of celibacy, and today's child molesting priests due partly to the same evil doctrine, not to mention the murdering of millions of innocent people they called "heretics" for hundreds of years. But they do teach salvation by works and send their people to Hell because of it, so if you prefer that doctrine feel free to embrace it.Exactly what horrible immoralities are you talking about though that you say I project here? Not baking a cake for a gay wedding? You seem to agree with us about abortion so although Percy thinks it's a great evil to oppose it you apparently don't. Wanting to keep jihadists out of the country? Otherwise I have no idea what supposed immoralities I project here.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I have no such hatreds.But not to lose sight of the topic, Christian salvation is not by good works but by faith, and good works are the consequence of faith.And again, what you call good, God calls evil. Abortion is evil, allowing potentially dangerous jihadists access to innocent "infidels" is evil, encouraging LGBT's to live a lie about their nature and force everybody else to support that lie is evil, and support of illegal immigration is evil.And again, I have no feeling of hatred toward any of the people you list. None whatever, I hope the best for all of them, I just disagree with you about what the best is.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Of course Christians aim to live by the golden rule and loving neighbor, as do I. But that doesn't get you saved.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I know it's hopeless to keep trying to correct this stuff, but one more time: I am NEVER denouncing PERSONS, EVER, only ideologies, philosophies, principles etc. I am not talking about immigrants but ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, not about LGBTS but about GAY MARRIAGE, not about Muslims but about JIHADI ISLAM, etc etc etc etc etc.

Got Questions stated the Reformation doctrine quite clearly. Feeding the hungry is a necessity but it doesn't save you.

You are history-challenged, to put it nicely.

And that remark makes you logic-challenged as well.

I don't know how this thread got onto socialism, but I want to take it back to the book reading program I mentioned earlier when the book being read was The Coming Pagan Utopia edited by Peter Jones.The program finished that book and has now taken up one by the editors of World Magazine, a Christian publication that started up in 1986. The book is Prodigal Press which appears to be about how journalism in America went from a predominantly Christian focus to Christianity-bashing with an aggressively secular focus, at least since the nineteenth century but increasing in recent years, though I have to reread it to get a clearer sense of the time frame they are talking about.I missed part of it but heard this morning's reading of the 1988 Introduction and the Introduction to the revised 2013 edition. Already gives a lot of information that's new to me, about just how very Christian American journalism really was before whatever time it changed. Like the book on the coming Pagan Utopia this is probably one I should get too though reading remains difficult for me and finances aren't exactly abundant either.I'm quite sure nobody here has any idea of how Christian our news media were at one time either. I think he said there were 80 {correction: it was 52} newspapers in New York City alone with an overtly Christian point of view. Such a dramatic change also suggests that today's dominant opinions have been manufactured for you and I bet you don't know that either.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : Changed date of World Magazine to 1986 from 1988, and number of Christian publications in New York to 52 from 80.

I'm pretty sure nobody here has any real appreciation for just how Christian journalism was in earlier times, and the nation as a whole. Because over and over I keep hearing it argued that the nation was never really Christian. You should have objected to that and you didn't, nor did anyone else here who supposedly is aware of this as you claim. In any case I had no idea that newspapers were so explicitly Christian and I'm sure you didn't either.ABE: AND, I'm really really sure that you and others here are not aware of the aggressive purging of our Christian past that has been done by this new secular media either. Since the effect would be that nobody has any appreciation any more of just HOW Christian we were the absence of such information wouldn't mean anything to anyone. The Protestant Reformation being completely left out of history texts? Changing "Thank God'" to "Thank goodness" in a direct quote? And a lot more than that. We aren't just more secular, there is a concerted effort to eradicate all traces of our former Christian identity.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Yes of course that is all well known. What is not so well known is how much of that was engineered, much of it by biased antiChristian media and lying textbooks, and just how very very Christian we were in the past. Anyway I'm going to read that book because I do expect to learn new things from it although everybody else here is probably content with the status quo, having no idea how their opinions have been intentionally manipulated.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.