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Believing it is not proving it

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Author Topic:   Believing it is not proving it
Percy
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Posts: 22506
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
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Message 30 of 300 (299814)
03-31-2006 12:22 PM 		Reply to: Message 29 by New Cat's Eye
03-31-2006 12:07 PM

Re: A technical point
Catholic Scientist writes:
​
I'd say that a YEC evolutionist is a contradiction...
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And yet they exist. A common YEC position is that the ark did not have to hold as many different animals as might be expected because Noah only had to save the basic kinds. The numerous species present today evolved from the basic kinds in the time since Noah.
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But you should be able to successfully argue that "YEC macroevolutionist" is a contradiction!
​
--Percy
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 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-31-2006 12:07 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22506
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4

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Message 56 of 300 (299868)
03-31-2006 4:27 PM 		Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
03-31-2006 4:11 PM

Re: A technical point
Faith writes:
​
The important point here, is that the term "Christian" applies to a person, not to a set of beliefs. There is a bit of a grammatical problem with the statement, so I had to interpret it as
"Christian evolutionist" is an oxymoron.
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Perhaps that isn't what Robin intended, but that's the risk of ambiguity.
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"Christian" is a legitimate adjective referring to a set of qualities or attributes, not to a person. I don't understand your problem. Nobody would ever call a PERSON an oxymoron.
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"Jumbo shrimp" is not calling shrimp an oxymoron, just as "Christian evolutionist" is not calling a person an oxymoron. It is the entire phrase that is the referent of oxymoron, not the noun of the phrase.
​
--Percy
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22506
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4

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Message 58 of 300 (299872)
03-31-2006 4:35 PM 		Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
03-31-2006 4:22 PM

Re: Lookingglass Logic at EvC
Faith writes:
​
I have NEVER argued that the fact that I believe something makes me right. Ever.
​
You gotta be kidding. As you've said many times, you believe in the truth of the Bible, and you use that as the basis for asserting the correctness of your views. You have repeated this many times, which is why it is so funny that you can't see that Jar is replying (on purpose) in the very same way.
​
--Percy
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 Message 52 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 4:22 PM Faith has replied
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 Message 59 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 4:39 PM Percy has replied
Percy
Member
Posts: 22506
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4

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Message 68 of 300 (299886)
03-31-2006 5:04 PM 		Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
03-31-2006 4:39 PM

Re: No I've never made my belief the authority for anything
Faith writes:
​
No, I have never ever ever based an argument on MY BELIEF. Not once ever. Perhaps you are logically confusing this with my basing of an argument ON THE BIBLE, which is not the same thing as basing it on my belief.
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No, I'm not logically confusing anything. I know the difference between a phrase and a noun of the phrase, and between a plain statement and an obfuscation.
​
--Percy
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22506
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4

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Message 149 of 300 (300303)
04-02-2006 2:53 PM 		Reply to: Message 133 by robinrohan
04-02-2006 12:47 PM

Re: its a big misunderstanding
Hi Robin,
​
It seems to me that when you say "one cannot be a Christian and an evolutionist" that you are using your view of what it means to be a Christian. In your view, a Christian does not believe in a God who "created a situation in which, in order to survive, life forms must torture, kill, and eat other life forms".
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I think there are many people who don't share your view of what it means to be a Christian. There are other very common views of Chrisianity in which it is not considered contradictory to accept evolution. Catholocism and the Methodists come to mind.
​
--Percy
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 Message 133 by robinrohan, posted 04-02-2006 12:47 PM robinrohan has not replied
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 Message 153 by Faith, posted 04-02-2006 3:46 PM Percy has replied
Percy
Member
Posts: 22506
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4

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Message 159 of 300 (300324)
04-02-2006 4:01 PM 		Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
04-02-2006 3:46 PM

Re: its a big misunderstanding
Faith writes:
​
This thread is about the illogic of trying to refute Robin's position by pointing out there are people who believe it is not contradictory to be a Christian and support evolution.
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It has been refuted to the extent it has been established. Meaning it hasn't been much established, and it hasn't been much refuted.
​
--Percy
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