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Author
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Topic: Believing it is not proving it
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 16 of 300 (299778)
03-31-2006 9:42 AM
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Let's discuss this Robin, Faith, Iano.
Please correct me if my understanding of Robin's position is incorrect. It is my understanding that Robin's position is that it is impossible for a Christian to accept Evolution. Is that a correct summary?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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So Robin, Faith, Iano, what is the position?
That's fine. And if that is the case we can discuss that as well. I'm just waiting for Robin or Faith or Iano to make it clear exactly what it is we are discussing. Let's get them to set the goal posts instead of us trying to explain their position. edited to fix subtitle. This message has been edited by jar, 03-31-2006 09:15 AM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: A technical point
I think its because the term evolutionist is equated with believing that life came into being by purely naturalistic means and the term chritian is equated with believing that god created life, thus the contradiction. What contradiction exists in that? Am I supposed to limit GOD's means of creating life? But before we go to far, let's let Robin or Faith or Iano explain what THEY meant.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 63 of 300 (299879)
03-31-2006 4:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
03-31-2006 3:19 PM
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Re: Let's discuss this Robin, Faith, Iano.
Faith writes: His position is that it is LOGICALLY impossible for a Christian to accept Evolution, or to state it another way, his position is that Christianity and Evolution are mutually contradictory. Fine, if that is his (and your position) are you ready to debate that assertion?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 3:19 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Let's discuss this Robin, Faith, Iano.
In my opinion I was refuting Robin's assertion that it was impossible to be a Christian and accept evolution. But all that is really not important. If Iano or Robin or Faith will once and for all specify exactly what the hell it is that they wish to discuss, I will discuss it with them. Hell, I might even agree with them. I've offered many times to do so.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 84 of 300 (299912)
03-31-2006 6:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 80 by iano
03-31-2006 5:56 PM
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Re: Who? Me?
Hey, I just think this whole thing is hilarious. Everybody is talking about what I mean but me. Faith seems to have her panties in a wad about nothing. I've offered many times to discuss it, to let her, Robin, you, whoever wants, to set out exactly what is to be discussed, but so far that ain't happening. Like I said, hell, I might even agree with them. But here we are 80 some posts into an utterly absurd thread and nothing getting acomplished. All that needs to be done is for Faith to pull her head out and ask me what I meant. Then we might get some where. Seems simple don't it? 
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by iano, posted 03-31-2006 5:56 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 86 by iano, posted 03-31-2006 6:46 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 88 of 300 (299920)
03-31-2006 6:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
03-31-2006 6:51 PM
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How totally silly!
And sure enough, that's about the size of his post above. The equivalent of his usual LOL, his attempt to denigrate my argument and me and pretend the ball is in my court when at any point he could have defended his case. I have no interest in addressing him. I know what he meant. I've made my point. All he can do is pretend one way or another that his illogic was logical, and I'm sure he'll have the usual gaggle of supporters. For all I care he can go on and do it from now to the end of the thread. So you do not want to either outline exactly what you're position is or discuss it. And I'm to blame. How hilarious can it get. Is this Threater of the Absurd? All that is needed is for you to discuss this with me. I am more than willing to discuss Robin's original claim that it is impossible for a Christian to accept Evolution, that Evolution disproves GOD or that Christian Evolutionist is and oxymoron, but would have to get some clearer definitions on that last one. I'm perfectly willing to discuss these or any other issues with you, with Robin, with Iano, with anyone. How 'bout you? edited to change or to of. This message has been edited by jar, 03-31-2006 06:01 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 6:51 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 90 by iano, posted 03-31-2006 7:15 PM | | jar has replied | | | Message 94 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 8:38 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 91 of 300 (299924)
03-31-2006 7:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 90 by iano
03-31-2006 7:15 PM
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Re: reminder
Because you keep posting comments on my content, intent and beliefs.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 90 by iano, posted 03-31-2006 7:15 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 92 by iano, posted 03-31-2006 8:09 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 93 of 300 (299932)
03-31-2006 8:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 92 by iano
03-31-2006 8:09 PM
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Re: reminder
Where have I posted in the context of this thread on your beliefs? In Message 86 you provided the link to Message 38 where you say:
Thus it is unreasonable (on both yourself and Jar) to suppose that he will satisfy your requirement of him (explain himself and expose his viewpoint to critique - for there is insufficient material to work with) or that you will satisfy his requirement (you aren't content with short on detail attempts at conclusion) and
Jar is (like Charles Knight before him) a sniper at work. There is a role for this input. It helps to know that you can be tackled on any word or idea that you post and it helps to keep your arguement tighter. Sniping is almost a pseudo-admin role in that respect. But don't take it as mainstream in depth, point on point debate. It cannot do what it is not designed to do. It seems in those you are saying that I have not outlined my beliefs here at EvC in detail. I don't doubt for a second that is what you believe, however if you really want to examine that position, there are literally dozens of threads here at EvC where I go into great depth explaining what I believe. Check the POTMs as a start.
How can you include my comments as to your general EvC content and intent as threadworthy when you don't seem to know what the thread is about at this juncture? What make you think I have. All I've done is said I'd be happy to discuss that or any other subject with you.
On that basis all posters should be made protaginists. As I said, hardly protaginists, but if you look, I think you'll find that I consistently invite everyone to discuss things with me.
Why me specifically? Because you opened your mouth, joined the thread and posted material specifically relating to me. LOL
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by iano, posted 03-31-2006 8:09 PM | | iano has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 95 of 300 (299937)
03-31-2006 8:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
03-31-2006 8:38 PM
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Re: Silly indeed.
At any point you could outline YOUR position, but you haven't done so. Well, I have outlined my position in this here very thread, but I'll repeat it once again for you. My position is:
- that I think you got your panties in a wad over nothing.
- that I was responding to Robin's oft made assertion that it was impossible to accept Evolution and be a Christian.
- that I am happy to debate the equally illogical assertion that Christian Evolutionist is an oxymoron.
- that I will be glad to discuss that or any other subject with you, Robin, Iano or anyone else.
- that this thread is a Theater of the Absurd and you were hiding behind the protection of the PNT process to rant while avoiding debate.
- that my offer to discuss this or any other subject still stands and will continue to stand.
- that Christians who accept Young Earth Creationism or Classic Biblical Creationism pervert the Christian message.
- that not accepting the TOE is an act of wilfull ignorance and trying to create schools where children are hidden away is but to create Ghettos of Holy Ignorance.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 8:38 PM | | Faith has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 97 of 300 (299941)
03-31-2006 9:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 96 by randman
03-31-2006 9:13 PM
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I'm old, and slow, and my memory may be gone....
but I seem to recall spending hours discussing this with you. Please read that discussion. If you would like to start Yet Another Thread on the subject, please do so and I'll be glad to go over it Yet Again.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 96 by randman, posted 03-31-2006 9:13 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 98 by randman, posted 03-31-2006 9:27 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 99 of 300 (299947)
03-31-2006 9:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by randman
03-31-2006 9:27 PM
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reading problems?
I'm pretty sure I said
If you would like to start Yet Another Thread on the subject, please do so and I'll be glad to go over it Yet Again. Sure looks like an offer to discuss it to me?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by randman, posted 03-31-2006 9:27 PM | | randman has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 102 of 300 (299957)
03-31-2006 11:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Faith
03-31-2006 10:57 PM
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Re: Silly indeed.
Faith writes: J[sic]ar, 2 and 3 have been answered here many times over. If you want to argue it further, go ahead. If you wish. In summary, you asked for my position to be repeated and for the record, here it is once again.
My position is:
- that I think you got your panties in a wad over nothing.
- that I was responding to Robin's oft made assertion that it was impossible to accept Evolution and be a Christian.
- that I am happy to debate the equally illogical assertion that Christian Evolutionist is an oxymoron.
- that I will be glad to discuss that or any other subject with you, Robin, Iano or anyone else.
- that this thread is a Theater of the Absurd and you were hiding behind the protection of the PNT process to rant while avoiding debate.
- that my offer to discuss this or any other subject still stands and will continue to stand.
- that Christians who accept Young Earth Creationism or Classic Biblical Creationism pervert the Christian message.
- that not accepting the TOE is an act of wilfull ignorance and trying to create schools where children are hidden away is but to create Ghettos of Holy Ignorance.
The second issue is Robin's assertion that it is impossible to accept evolution and be a Christian. I am a Christian and accept Evolution and so that point is totally refuted. That one can be laid to rest, it's daid. The third issue is Robin's assertion that Christian Evolutionist is an oxymoron. A definition of oxymoron is:
A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist. For that to be true the two terms Christian and Evolutionist must either be incongruous or contradictory. I have many, many times here at EvC outlined why Evolution is not contradictory to Christianity, or even incongruous. The first is that many, many Christians accept Evolution. The second is that if you look at the Creeds, there is nothing in them that precludes Evolution. Third, I find no conflict between the Bible and Evolution. Fourth, Evolution is so overwhelmingly supported that to deny Evolution is to spurn the very gifts that GOD gave us and an amazing act of hubris. Denying Evolution is to call GOD a liar and to reject the will of GOD that we should use the gift of critical thinking.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 10:57 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 103 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 11:38 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 104 of 300 (299960)
03-31-2006 11:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
03-31-2006 11:38 PM
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Re: Silly indeed.
So you claim. Your opinion is not the definitive opinion, and on the basis of Robin's definitions and my interpretations and many others, you hold your opinion illogically. I understand that is what you believe. I really don't care if you or Robin or others think my opinion is illogical. That is irrelevant. The only issue is whether or not I can provide reasoned explanations for the position I hold. That I have done.
But you refuse to address the arguments that have been put up against you. You are just repeating and asserting your same old stuff which is exactly what Robin was challenging. So post the damn arguments that you claim I have not addressed. So far I haven't seen any. And the four points I laid out are all logical and do support my point that Christianity and Evolution are not contradictory. What points do you want addressed?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 103 by Faith, posted 03-31-2006 11:38 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 116 of 300 (300164)
04-01-2006 8:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 115 by randman
04-01-2006 8:50 PM
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Re: reading problems?
Well, it has spirled out of control and right now there seem to be a bunch of Admins in there that you have been talking with. Frankly, I'm just sitting and watching the show. Good luck. Hope you work things out. AbE: since the OP was couched as yet another call out jar thread I really don't think I should be the one to promote it. This message has been edited by jar, 04-01-2006 07:55 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by randman, posted 04-01-2006 8:50 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by randman, posted 04-01-2006 9:03 PM | | jar has replied |
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