Are we prisoners of sin

I do.The founder of Christianity believed them to be true too. Being the Son of God he saw all the events from the heavens. Now if they were merely allegorical, why would he speak of such things as real events?The only conclusion is that Jesus spoke about them because he believed that they really happened.He spoke about the Flood and Noah.

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Matthew 24:36 " For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as people were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

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ORLY lolwell you can believe it was magic if you want, I'll opt for the more sensible belief that the tree was a representation of Gods rulership.God has always provided us with physical representations for spiritual things. The tree of Knowledge was one of them. Just as the Temple was one of them and the High Priest was another...and many more that would warrant a new thread.As for the snake, it was merely used by the devil as a puppet in an attempt to fool Eve... and it worked obviously .

that might be a more fitting title for this threadi can understand why a non religious person takes issue with being called a sinner.Its good for religious people to keep in mind that sin is 'missing the mark of perfection' rather then committing some sort of evilI'm sure no one, not even non religious people, would argue against imperfection.

The scriptures testify to themselves...
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John 8:44: "[Jesus said:] The Devil ... is a liar and the father of the lie." Jesus was comfortable enough to teach that the Devil was the source of the first lie, spoken in Eden. He used the serpent as a visible mouthpiece. The Genesis account is not using fictional creatures to teach a lesson and nor was Jesus.
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1Cor. 15:45,47: "It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven." why would anyone compare Jesus, an historical figure, with a allegorical one when making such an important statement.
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Jude 14: "The seventh one in line from Adam, Enoch, prophesied." Enoch was not the seventh in line from all early mankind. He was a decendant of the first man Adam, someone who was clearly believed to be a real person.______________________________________
Luke 3:23-38: "Jesus himself, when he commenced his work, was about thirty years old, being the ... son of David ... son of Abraham ... son of Adam." David and Abraham are well-known historical persons. Why would the genealogies of the Jews contain an allegorical figure along with historical persons? I doubt they would do that unless the person was real.There are many more scriptures that show that Jesus viewed the genesis account as factual. He used the genesis account of Adam & Eves marriage to show what Gods standard for marriages was, that is Monogamy, so i doubt very much that anyone can claim the account is not factual. the OT shows that the Jews had a very clear understanding of what sin was, they were categorized into intentional and unintentional sins.Leviticus 4 describes how and why the Sin Offerings were to be made.
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Lev 4:2-35 "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘In case a soul sins by mistake...3 If the priest, the anointed one, sins so as to bring guiltiness upon the people, then he must present for his sin that he has committed a sound young bull...13Now if the entire assembly of Israel makes a mistake...then the congregation must present a young bull for a sin offering and must bring it before the tent of meeting...22When a chieftain sins...27And if any soul of the people of the land sins ...35 ,and the priest must make an atonement for him for his sin that he has committed, and so it must be forgiven him"
________________________________________________________________I cant imagine how anyone could draw such a conclusion??? What is your reasoning on this? except that snakes dont talk. lol. And Christian teachings show that the serpent was in fact the devil who was a rebellious angel.
____________________________1Cor11:33"But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, YOUR minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ"The serpent who tricked eve by its cunning was identified in
Revelation 20:20"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2And he seized the dragon, the ORIGINAL SERPENT, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."___________________________
John 8:42"Jesus said to them...44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began...he is a liar and the father of [the lie]."Jesus spoke of the devil as a real individual who lied and deceived and he was telling this to real people whom he claimed were carrying out the desires of the devil. Do you really think he is attributing their evil intentions to kill him, to a non existent being???The scriptures also show that Christs disciples believed that Satan was a real individual with real intentions._____________________
"Keep YOUR senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone]. 9But take YOUR stand against him, solid in the faith, knowing that the same things in the way of sufferings are being accomplished in the entire association of YOUR brothers in the world"In this scripture christians were warned about the Devils intentions. An allegorical figure cannot have intentions ever, yet here the Devil is being spoken of as seeking out people to devour.
_____________________I used to work with someone who did not believe in the devil, he was a Christadelphian. Are you Christadelphian? Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

do you not think that Gods law is a standard of perfection?

what makes it imperfect?

the 10 commandments are a pretty good place to start for it shows us how the love of God is to be applied, but Jesus showed that there are only 2 laws on which all of Gods commands hang.He said the greatest of Gods are "you must love your God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength... 38This is the greatest and first commandment. 39The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40On these two commandments the whole Law hangs..." Matt 22:35So as a law, love when applied is superior because a person can obey all the other laws under compulsion but not have love. But if one has love, they will be motivated by that love to fullfill all of Gods laws....Laws that will be 'written on their hearts' as Jeremiah 31:33 says "I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people"God is love and love is perfect and it is a perfect law. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

God knows that people need evidence, it was he who made them with inquiring minds. This is why the Apostles were given the power of miracles...this is why Jesus himself was given the power of miracles.

Not all that Jesus taught was penned in the gospels. They are not a word for word account of everything he ever said.But what proved that Paul and the other Apostles wrote under inspiration is that they were given the holy spirit and given powers and miracles which proved that they were working with Gods spirit and not their own. God did the same thing for Moses. He gave him the power of miracle to prove that he was sent by God. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Matthew 20:28 Jesus said "The Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many."
He also explained to the diciples that he must die and suffer although they did not believe him at the time. They objected to that fate and thats when he told Peter to "Get behind me Satan"he certainly was to die a sacrificial death and he certainly did teach it by his own words.Jesus also showed that he was given authority to forgive sinsLuke 17:20And when he saw their faith he said: 'Man, your sins are forgiven you.' 21Thereupon the scribes and the Pharisees started to reason, saying: 'Who is this that is speaking blasphemies? Who can forgive sins except God alone?' 22But Jesus, discerning their reasonings, said in answer to them: What are YOU reasoning out in YOUR hearts? 23Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 24But in order for YOU to know that the Son of man has authority on the earth to forgive sins' he said to the paralyzed man: I say to you, Get up and pick up your little bed and be on your way home.
________________________- This petition would not be authorized unless there was some basis for God’s forgiveness of us. The basis for it is not just his love and mercy because Gods perfect justice requires death for sin.
So the basis for forgiveness is his love and mercy expressed in the human sacrifice of his Son Jesus Christ which completely met all the demands of justice in our behalf...that is 'Life for Life' ie Jesus paid our debt to God, the debt that Adam handed down to us namely sin & death.
When Jesus taught this prayer in the sermon on the mount he had already pronounced the forgiveness of the sins of a number whom he healed. So it was to be understood that God’s forgiveness would be through Christ Jesus. And part of becoming a follower of Christ is to let go of all hatred and to Love your enemies which requires forgiveness on the part of the christian.this is why Jesus taught his followers to pray for forgiveness of their sins ...'just as they have forgiven others'... otherwise they could not be his followers. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

i understand it perfectly.But if you believe that the devil is an allegorical figure then we would have to say that God and the heavens and the Angels are also allegorical figures according to JOB 1:4-8in this account, Satan is said to enter heaven and had a conversation with God...so, lets throw the bible away because there must be no God and therefore all religion is futile.

i know neither of them are one of the 10 commandments but you will find them in the Mosaic law code. The reason why Jesus said that they were the most important is because if one lives by love, they will naturally abide by ALL of Gods other laws. It doesnt really matter now because the Mosaic law only proved that no one can fully live by the laws of God. Each of those mosaic laws were supposed to be obeyed to the letter, but no one could do it. We are born into sin and it makes it very difficult for us to live perfect lives that live according to Gods standards. Btw his standards are the 10 commandments and all of the mosaic laws are derived from those 10.this is why Jesus said that the greatest of all Gods commandments are 'Love'
Because in our sinful condition, there is no possible way for us to meet the standard set by God. And he knows this, so he did away with the mosaic law and introduce the 'Law of the Christ' which is 'Love'. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, I am writing YOU these things that YOU may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s"Christians are like anyone else, we all miss the mark of perfection, we all sin...yet we are able to approach God for forgiveness thru Jesus because Jesus carries the burden of our sins for us. It does not negate anything. We are already carrying a penalty, not for lack of love, but for sinfulness. That penalty is death.
Jesus role was to reverse this situation we are in. And it all happened by Gods will... so Jesus role does not over ride Gods role as the one who made it all possible.Matt 26:27"Also, he took a cup and, having given thanks, he gave it to them, saying: 'Drink out of it, all of YOU; 28for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins." Your right. But the fact is that in our current condition, we can never express perfect love. This is the purpose of the Kingdom of God and Jesus role is to bring humans back to their intended perfect condition. Once this has been achieved, humans will no longer need a mediator between themselves and God. Humans can become reconciled to God just as it was for Adam and Eve before they sinned.1Cor 15:22For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. ...25For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. ...28But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone."Havnt' you ever asked yourself what the 'Kingdom' is that we were told to pray for?

because even though Jesus has died in our behalf, we are still in a sinful condition, the results were not instantaneous. This is still a work in progress and until the 1,000 year reign of the Messianic Kingdom comes to its completion, we will be imperfect.When we are perfect we will no longer need to ask for forgiveness. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

if you really believe that then you might as well stop right now.
You are wasting your time and energy discussing God because he must also be a fictional character.no more discussion needed.

I think you misunderstand the consequences of imperfection.Adam started life as a perfect man...perfect reasoning ability, perfect in form, perfect in mind. But after he turned away from God, he became imperfect because he chose his own way and his own standard...those standards were not Gods.this is why the Hebrews could not live by the Mosaic law...they too were imperfect and alienated from God and they were only accustomed to living by mans standards. God didnt give them the Mosaic law to punish them, he gave it to them to teach them that His ways were higher then their ways. It also showed them that they were in a state of imperfection and needed to be saved from that condition. This was the purpose of the law...it was a 'tutor leading to the Christ'If you're a parent, im sure you have allowed you child to find out something the hard way... sometimes they dont believe you until they see it for themselves. God showed them that they were imperfect when he gave them the law. This is why they were looking forward to the Messiah's coming. They knew that he would remove the law and reconcile them to God.